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| ghost |
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Most of you make good points, and what Cathal did was not good (take EPO), but he paid his penalty and should have been given the opportunity to redeem himself. When Bernard Lagat pulled out of Paris (2003) because one of his samples came back 'positive' that did not stop him from coming back, and the weight of evidence was against him in that case. Lagat only got 'off' because the procedures at the Lab. in Malabray (France) had not been followed to the letter. When there is a 'positive' reading in a sample, like in the Lagat case, it is most unlikely that the athlete did not take something. However he (Lagat) was given the benefit of the doubt. Was this politics? Lombard, was caught, admitted it, and then tried to come back, but was not allowed to run in normal circumstances. The sport had ceased to be fun for him. It is difficult to live and celebrate life and running when you are made to feel like a pariah. I never defended Cathal for taking drugs, but I do defend the right of a human to return to society once he has paid his penalty, as Cathal did. It is a sad reflection on society that he was not allowed to do so. Western judicial systems have been devised with those provisions in mind - you commit wrong, you pay a penalty, and then you return to society with a chance to redeem yourself. But Cathal returned to the running community with a permanent shackle attached to himself - a shackle made up of hostility and incomprehension from others. The weight of the shackle eventually made Cathal realize that he would never ever be acclaimed for his new running career performances, even though there is little/nothing to suggest that he was not 'clean.' Ghost in Korea www.gifle.go.kr, apply now, good conditions. c.moulton |
| You idiot. |
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Ghost in korea you really piss me off. you talk like you are some sort of scholar and as if you personally know him and have been through his experiences. You are a total twat simple as and are annoying everyone,stop sticking up for a drug taking cheat who brings OUR SPORT into disrepute, he ha smade a mockery of athletics and irish athletics in particular!! You are a f***in idiot and i wich you would stop posting, it is quite clear you are trying to be witty and clever but it is making YOU look stupid. Drug cheats should be given a life ban. And also in regards to your last ridiculous comment of there is nothing to prove he was on drugs in his las race, there was also nothing to prove he WASN'T on drugs. And to be fair once a cheat always a cheat etc. |
| Asterix |
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Why? Participating in elite sport is not a right, but a privilege. He knew the consequences of cheating. He knew that not only would he be subject to a two year ban, but that he would always have the 'cheater' label attached to him. To argue otherwise is just plain ignorant. Yet knowing those consequences, he still chose to cheat.
Get some perspective. You seem to want to interchangeably use 'society' for 'competitive running'. They are NOT the same. No one is saying he can't 'return to society'. As far as 'society' is concerned, he never even left. All that is being discussed here is his return to 'competitive running'. There is a big difference and you apparently are not grasping that.
Drop the altruistic clap-trap about the ideology of the Western judicial system. Competitive running is not society at large. The running community is under no moral or legal obligation to welcome him with open arms and give him this 'change to redeem' himself. |
| Life bans |
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you do live to twist arguments for your own ends - Quote: "Western judicial systems have been devised with those provisions in mind - you commit wrong, you pay a penalty, and then you return to society with a chance to redeem yourself." This is true. However, there is a difference between society in general and specific part of society. If you worked at a Bank and stole money from them, was caught, jailed & released at the end of your sentence -YES you would return to general society, but would you (without deception) ever gain employment in that bank or any other again - NO (unless they're mad). So yes Lombard served his sentence and should get on with his life in general socieity but no he shouldnt never have been allowed back into the sport of running. Same for all confessed cheaters. |
| Rubbish ghost |
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Ghost talks as though he is a personal aquaintance of numerous top athletes on this board, he made out sveeral posts that he had knowledge of Lombard and his case that most of us did not know about. He hasn't got a clue about these people, he reads an article, watches a report and then fills in the gaps with what he thinks are truth, the guy is a nut job. The only way we will stop idiots like Lombard is to introduce criminal proceedings against these people, it is no different from defrauding a company, he took contracts from companies on the back of his false achievements, how the hell anyone would trust him as a lawyer is beyond me. |
| fea |
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Great post. |
| Upset |
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I am not equating the two - I said strongly that Lombard cheated, Lombard was punished, Lombard served his time and suggested that Lombard's performance should be taken on its merits - otherwise you have to assume that if he is being tested regularly which he was, and stil taking something then there the same asumption cannot be dismissed with others. The past is not always the present nor the future. |
| perspective |
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Irish Alzheimer's: that's when you forget everything but the grudges. |
| cleaner |
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when you have been banned for epo use, the rule should be "guilty until proven innocent." i do not believe cathal was clean... if indeed clean, he should have ignored the naysayers and continued with his training to prove everyone wrong. now the doubt will continue to exist and plague his retirement. the guy just smoked a world class 5k runner. he should have stuck to it in order to overcome the adversity. my 2 cents. |
| HRE |
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ghost, I generally have agreed with your position on this regarding forgiveness and allowing people second chances and I also don't know why there isn't much more of an outcry about Lagat's situation. But it's hard for me to believe that a 14 minute 5 km runner, that's the last clean time we KNOW Lombard put up, can win a major cross country race from a guy who has run sub 13:30 even if the latter guy is having an awful day. I'm not saying it can't happen, just that I have a hard time believing it. So I have to wonder, (note that I said "wonder," not "conclude") if Lombard isn't still taking stuff. Yet you're eveidently convinced that Lombard is clean this time. But you don't say why you're convinced. Given that you're in Korea I doubt that you're constantly with Lombard and can say he never takes anything. Others have referred to this as well, but I'd like to ask you directly whether you know Lombard personally, know someone who knows him, know someone who does testing or if you have any connection to this situation that most of us don't which leads you to your conclusions. |
| Doodlebug |
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It dosn't matter, because if he did test possitive it would be his second violation, and he would be done for life anyway. |
| Pete |
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Lombard is fully entitled to "return to society," and in fact was never forced out of it. He has no right to expect forgiveness from athletes and fans who were cheated by him. I applaud his decision to retire, and I wish him all the best in his other endeavours. I always respected that he came clean quickly after being caught (unlike many others), but I don't want to see him compete again. |
| Asterix |
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That kind of says something about society when he is being 'respected' (or even praised) for doing that which should be the minimum expected. You get caught? Come clean and be truthful (you've already been a jerk by cheating in the first place), just don't expect a medal for it. |
| Pete |
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I didn't say I praise him. Just that I respect that he, unlike most caught cheaters, at least had the cojones to man up and admit to it instead of trying to obfuscate. To me, that shows some amount of character, which means he's not a total write-off. For that, I wish him all the best in his other endeavours outside of sport. Cheats like Ben Johnson don't get the same treatment. Not like they care, I'm sure, as I don't imagine Lombard much cares about my opinion either. |
| maybe |
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oh let me guess, that woulda been around July 1991 when da good people of Oirland realised that yer man Sean Kelly wasn't exactly as clean as a whistle. |
| benglois |
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Well, Lombard has solved the problem. We don't have to speculate whether he is still on the juice. Cragg has gotten rid of a competitor and nobody will be upset by Lombard racing after he served the ban. Lombard can focus on his 2nd career. |
| club runner 147 |
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what career? he never really had a career in athletics! he had a 13'18 race and a 27'35" race. 40 minutes doesnt make a career. He was fired from his job too, right? good on him though. first right things he's done in ten years. Cathal, we hardly knew ya' ! |
| GET A GRIP! |
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That isn't 'manning up', nobody deserves credit for doing what they should do, like raising their own kids or paying their bills. That doesn't take much "character". Lombard has been a pox on the sport, and by proxy so is ghost. Good riddance to Lombard and if I never see another post from ghost it'll be too soon. |
| club runner 147 |
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"calm down, calm down" (add scouse accent) you risk losing your point by making such ascerbic remarks at a knowledgeble, clever, (if too apologist) poster. |
| halliburton oil |
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That westernized society you criticize is also responsible for allowing you to express your opinion. Maybe Lombard should live in Korea if he wants to go somewhere where criticism is "silenced" Then again criminals are always protected over there Just make sure that you're not paying five grand for your liason with the nice young girl (cough) on the corner. Me love you long time |
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