Malmo what's the best way to structure a 100 and 110 mile weeks?

twig mzungu wrote:

My question with your model is, what do I do once I get up to 100 a week in June? Stay there? Keep adding mileage? Up the intensity? I know you're going to tell me to feel it rather than think it, but if the goal of the SoM is to come into the season feeling fresh, wouldn't running 8+ weeks at a constant 100ish risk some stagnation? Obviously I've never tried it so I don't know how my body would react, but this quick of a jump goes against a lot of what I've been taught.

Up the intensity? Go back and read SOM.

Aerobic training is, by definition, low impact and easy on the body. In any good program, whether it be SOM or any other, if you are feeling fatigued or stagnated, then back off a week or so. Let your body tell you what to do.

Clear the junk out of you head that's telling you training, especially Summer trianing, needs to be difficult.

If you want, tell me some of the workouts you'd normally do during the season and I' convert them to SOM paces for you?

Up the intensity? Go back and read SOM.

Aerobic training is, by definition, low impact and easy on the body. In any good program, whether it be SOM or any other, if you are feeling fatigued or stagnated, then back off a week or so. Let your body tell you what to do.

Clear the junk out of you head that's telling you training, especially Summer trianing, needs to be difficult.

If you want, tell me some of the workouts you'd normally do during the season and I' convert them to SOM paces for you?[/quote]

Typical week of workouts looks like:

Mon: fartlek of 4 to 6 x 3 to 5 mins at xc race pace (probably 5:15 range), 1 min training pace

Wed: 6 to 8 x 1200m in 3:50 to 3:40 with about 1 min recovery

Sat (if we don't have a race): 3 to 5 mile "tempo" (ends up being pretty tough) on a very hill road at 5:30 to 5:45 min mile pace.

Distance runs of 70-90 mins the other days, 80-100 mins on Sunday. I've been doing about 30mins easy Mon, Wed morning and occasionally Tues, Thurs, Fri. Our coach encourages us to get after distance runs pretty hard (says we shouldn't be able to hold a conversation). He also discourages doubles.

For perspective, I've run 26:40 8Kxc and 15:30 track 5k, looking to get sub 26 and sub 15.

this is a little off topic, but i was looking for some advice as well...

I run in a low mileage division II Program and im coming off of a great outdoor season (every race was a PR). my coach, like almost every coach, stresses at least 2 weeks off. I know this will benefit me GREATLY, considering the intensity. I know that it will help for xc this year... however, i don't really feel that i need to take any time off, im not totally "shot" from this season, not even close to burnout. I am however a little tired from finals and speed workouts.... would it be wrong to roll right into the "summer of malmo" plan? if anything i feel i need a couple (3-4) easy days (3-5 miles) and i should be good to go. what do you guys think? take a couple easy days and start summer xc training? or take a full week or two off with no running?

I think that'd be fine, just so long as you're mentally ready to start running again at the end of your break. Physically, if you're not injured you don't really need time off.

If last year during preseason I did 5xmile with 5 min recovery in 5:40, 5:37, 5:33, 5;30, 5:19...what would summer of malmo pace be? and is that to much recovery in summer of malmo should i lower it to 3-4 min?

I was guessing maybe around 6 minute pace for the miles...to fast? slow?

I was a 28:50 5 miler last year and that was a 2 min pr. I managed to do a 16 miler at 6:30 pace the day after but ended up with ankle tendonitis so I never could improve later in the season

twig mzungu wrote:

Typical week of workouts looks like:

Mon: fartlek of 4 to 6 x 3 to 5 mins at xc race pace (probably 5:15 range), 1 min training pace

5:30-5:45. Whatever is "comfortable" Why not take 2:00 between each?

twig mzungu wrote:

Wed: 6 to 8 x 1200m in 3:50 to 3:40 with about 1 min recovery

400-600 at the same pace, or the same 1200s at about 4:00. Again, whatever is comfortable.

twig mzungu wrote:

Sat (if we don't have a race): 3 to 5 mile "tempo" (ends up being pretty tough) on a very hill road at 5:30 to 5:45 min mile pace.

If it's "tough" its not a tempo run. Why not start off at 6:00 pace then gradually get into the zone.

twig mzungu wrote:

Our coach encourages us to get after distance runs pretty hard (says we shouldn't be able to hold a conversation). He also discourages doubles.

Res ipsa loquitur

'That was not by design. In 1981 I severely injured my plantar fascia,'

Malmo, how did you get rid of your PF?

Here is the answer to the original question of this thread:

If you are training for distances between 5k and the marathon then a normal training week is best structured like this for a person running 100-110 miles per week.

13 runs

100-110 miles

Day 1 - run #1: 8 miles - easy pace + form drills

Day 1 - run #2: 5 miles - easy pace

Day 2 - run #1: Quality workout focusing on threshold (AT or LT)

Day 2 - run #2: 5 miles - easy pace

Day 3 - run #1: 10 miles - easy pace + strides

Day 3 - run #2: 5 miles - easy pace

Day 4 - run #1: 10 miles - easy pace + form drills

Day 4 - run #2: 5 miles - easy pace

Day 5 - run #1: Quality workout focusing on speed, VO2 Max or Lactate Tolerance

Day 5 - run #2: 5 miles - easy pace

Day 6 - run #1: 8 miles - easy pace + strides

Day 6 - run #2: 5 miles - easy pace

Day 7 - run #1: 17-20 miles most easy pace with late 2-5 mile segment at MP

Total: 100-110 miles

a wrote:My question with your model is, what do I do once I get up to 100 a week in June? Stay there? Keep adding mileage? Up the intensity? I know you're going to tell me to feel it rather than think it, but if the goal of the SoM is to come into the season feeling fresh, wouldn't running 8+ weeks at a constant 100ish risk some stagnation? Obviously I've never tried it so I don't know how my body would react, but this quick of a jump goes against a lot of what I've been taught.

I think malmo already answered this when he said aerobic training shouldn't be hard and shouldn't cause you to stagnate. Totally agree.

That said...

I've seen guys who just plain get bored doing the same thing for a prolonged period. One fix (although I don't normally endorse something quite this specific or structured and I definitely don't like getting hung up on counting miles until the end of the week) is what one very successful runner I know called "planned variance".

Let's say he wanted to average 100M/week. He'd run a four-week pattern of 100-100-115-85. It was just enough variety to keep him focused. He had the challenge of boosting his mileage one week, and a recovery week. Just a thought. Like malmo said, whatever is comfortable.

Mileage per day, per week or even per month is not nearly as important over the long haul as mileage per year.

Hi Malmo, long time listener, first time caller.

I ran an average between 65-80 miles per week in college, hammered workouts, and ran mediocre times. I've been running intermittently for the past year since graduating, but I'm starting to feel that need to compete and race again. If I've been doing 20-30 miles per week spread across 3-5 runs per week, would you advocate just jumping right back to 80ish and start trying to find that sweet spot, or would my situation be one where you would actually recommend a slower, more gradual buildup?

Call me crazy but I bet he says "listen to your body."

edumacator wrote:

Call me crazy but I bet he says "listen to your body."

Yes, I gathered that might be a possibility. But I think that advice means different things to someone who has been doing consistent mileage for a while vs. someone who hasn't, with a lifetime of decent mileage as a mediating factor.

themanontherun wrote:

Hi Malmo, long time listener, first time caller.

I ran an average between 65-80 miles per week in college, hammered workouts, and ran mediocre times. I've been running intermittently for the past year since graduating, but I'm starting to feel that need to compete and race again. If I've been doing 20-30 miles per week spread across 3-5 runs per week, would you advocate just jumping right back to 80ish and start trying to find that sweet spot, or would my situation be one where you would actually recommend a slower, more gradual buildup?

Bring it up, then bring it back down. Bring it up then bring it back down. Let your body tell you what to do.

I really think you should jump into interval sessions right away SOM style. Easy - much easier than you'd ever imagine when you were in college. I think you'll be surprised at how fast you return.

Lets say if in college you used to do 10x400 at 65 seconds, now try to start off with 10 x 200 at 40s (not a typo), then the next week a few more at 39, and so on.

The point is to get away front doing "just mileage" but not to kill yourself on the track.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

'That was not by design. In 1981 I severely injured my plantar fascia,'

Malmo, how did you get rid of your PF?

You don't get rid of plantar fasciitis, it gets rid of you.

Malmo, my last track meet will be this Saturday, and I was wondering if you can give me some advice on time off.

Is there a need for time off when you plan to just do easy miles and two light workouts a week?

Also, how long is the SOM? When should the "real work" begin, assuming you're peaking for late November?

Thanks!!!

eddylee wrote:

Malmo, my last track meet will be this Saturday, and I was wondering if you can give me some advice on time off.

Is there a need for time off when you plan to just do easy miles and two light workouts a week?

Also, how long is the SOM? When should the "real work" begin, assuming you're peaking for late November?

I'm so honored for the famous Eddy Lee to ask my opinion. Great job this year, Eddy.

Taking off is optional. Again, the idea of SOM came about as a reflection on how I'd do it over if I could. You can take off if you want or go right into SOM if you want. The point here is that SOM should be a very relaxful and rejuvenating experience. That's why I suggest you call up friends from home, even the local high school kids and ask if they want to join you. Remember nobody should ever be struggling to keep up, so you lead by example. LEts say if you're doing a 5 mile tempo run and its clear one of your buddies is either racing it or can't even keep up with you at your pace, then suggest that they do repeat 800s, wait a lap while you continue on your 5 mile tempo run, they jump back in, and repeat until your 5 miles is done.

For someone like you, I'd certify repeat 400 at 75s SOM, but so would 70 s. Do you get where I'm heading?

SOM goes right up to your first day of XC practice with your team. You won't come in setting PRs necessarily, but you will come in ready to handle anything that's thrown at you from day one.

This thread is great.

Thank you so much, Malmo!! :)

I absolutely love how you keep emphasizing on listening to your body. If I knew the importance of this in HS, then I would imagine my performances would be much higher.

Listen to your body. Easy days easy. Hard days hard. Enjoy running. JUST RUN BABY. 5 simple suggestions.

Thanks again!!

malmo wrote:

Bring it up, then bring it back down. Bring it up then bring it back down. Let your body tell you what to do.

I really think you should jump into interval sessions right away SOM style. Easy - much easier than you'd ever imagine when you were in college. I think you'll be surprised at how fast you return.

Lets say if in college you used to do 10x400 at 65 seconds, now try to start off with 10 x 200 at 40s (not a typo), then the next week a few more at 39, and so on.

The point is to get away front doing "just mileage" but not to kill yourself on the track.

Thank you for the advice, I have always enjoyed your posting. I hope you're right about coming back faster than expected!