My goal of sub 4:00 1500-I will not stop until I reach my goal.

good luck!

The links to Eddy's hot teammates work again, and I for one feel better about that. Just because I thought if his coach read this thread it would hurt his feelings a lot.

Also, Eddy would probably not want to post anymore because his coach would see it and put the kibosh on that.

Some will say it would be good for the coach to see this and get a clue, but the truth is that seeing so much criticism would not solve the problem. Just seeing that many people think your plan stinks usually just makes a clueless person more determined to prove something. In this case he will try to prove that his methods work.

I am amazed that any school in California (where MD runners grow on trees) would put so little effort into finding a good coach. I don't want to throw those girls in the pictures under the bus (they have nothing to do with this) but this guys coaching and training methods aren't setting the world on fire for them either (2:26 and 2:29 for 800m) ... oh well, at least they're hot.

I am confused by pointing for 4:44 when you have run 4:38 in training. Unless NAU is at 8500' elev. (I know it is not) you should be really testing yourself at a higher level. I mean shit, you've been testing yourself nearly every day in training and you are looking to run 3:59/4:18y during this season you should probably start at 4:32y (68 a lap ~ 4:15 for 1500) and work down to 64 a lap.

Usually people don't improve 20 seconds over a season (4:38 to 4:18), unless they are on a heavily periodized program of lots of volume over the winter (which you are not).

Aim higher. That is all I can say. 4:45 is good ... when you are a sophomore in HS.

I ran 4:43. The altitude here gives you a 9second conversion factor. So, this would put me at 4:34 for the FULL mile...a 4+ second PR. I had my achilles taped before the race because it was bugging me during warm up. Overall, I cannot complain. Next week I am running the 1200 leg of the dmr and the open mile(maybe the 800 instead).

eddylee wrote:

I ran 4:43. The altitude here gives you a 9second conversion factor. So, this would put me at 4:34 for the FULL mile...a 4+ second PR. I had my achilles taped before the race because it was bugging me during warm up. Overall, I cannot complain. Next week I am running the 1200 leg of the dmr and the open mile(maybe the 800 instead).

Eddy, Running a 4:00 off a 434 is going to tough, do you really think you can do this? That's at least 17 seconds, and most 4:00 flaters have Sub 1:57 800 speed! I don't want your goals to be too high here!

Hi guys, I'll be posting my training on a weekly basis now.

My training for this week:

M: 12mi, very hard last 3mi

Tu: 4x1.2miles with a hill: 6.15, 6.15, 6.03, 6.15, pleased with this, 2.30 recovery

Wed:Day off due to travelling

Thur: 5 mi steady run followed by 8x(roughly)800 with a hill finish, 1.30 recovery times between 2.30-2.40, I didn't feel like I pushed myself to where I needed to be on these reps.

Fri:6mi pretty easy

Sat:4mi pretty easy

Sun:roughly 10k quality cross country race, finished in a good 25th. was a mudfest.

Total mileage: 45-50

all in all I'm quite pleased with this week.

Its a long season, and anything can happen. I know that dropping 16+seconds(4:16 1500 pr) is going to be hard, but I do not necessarily have to do it this season. More realistically, sub 405 would be a good goal.

1/14

AM:.75 w/u

3x(400 with 1min rest) 59,63,67

.75 c/d

HEre we go again lol. I ran these in flats. I'm happy with my times. Achilles is feeling great.

PM: .5 w/u

2x(1600 with 10min rest)4:38, 5:03

.5 c/d

I just ran a PR for the 1600. I came through the 800 in 2:18, and it felt great. The second 1600 was crappy.

------------------------------------------------------

1/15

AM: .5 w/u

4x(300hard+100jog)

.25 c/d

I had to cut the warm up and cool down short because my roommate and I showed up late this morning to practice, and we both had class at 8....sucky because my morning class got cancelled. ANyways, it was a good workout. The first one was a 41. I do not know the others.

PM: .75 w/u

1x1200

.75 c/d

I came through the 800 in 2:11. I finished in 3:21(pr).

-------------

1/16

AM: .75 w/u

5x(500m accelerations on grass continuous)

.5 c/d

-------------------

1/17

AM: .75 w/u

2x1200 dirt loops with 5min recovery.

.75 c/d

I did them in 3:45 and 3:48.

PM: 0 rest achilles

---------

1/18

AM: easy 3miler with strides

PM- 0 drive to meet

---------

1/19 Lumberjack Invite- Flagstaff.

1mile w/u

1mile race in 4:43, 8th place overall.

.5 c/d

-------

1/20

9miles

I regret this. My achilles is hurting like a bitch.

----

Total mileage: 29.5

The 9miler today hurt. It feels like my endurance is going down the drain.

eddy, before you ruin your next six months, you have got to deal seriously with the achilles issue. are you doing the eccentric heel raises? you should be doing 3x10 raises 3x/day, as well as icing. right now it would not hurt you to take a couple of days off or more. you cannot keep improving with a worsening injury. then, you have got to stop the daily or twice daily speedwork. that is hell on the achilles. be a man and deal with your coach as necessary, but get the achilles taken care of, get in a long run every week (13 or more miles) and vary your workouts with something like hard day, easy day, hard day, etc. if you're doing speed, it makes sense to do some mileage during the other part of the day, but not to do speed morning and afternoon. and are you taking seriously the need for good, hard tempos?

It finally happend. Not breaking 4, but f ing up my achille so badly that I cannot even run right now. Yesterday at practice I could not even warm up. I cannot even put pressure on my achilles. Walking up the stairs hurt. I can walk around school, but I have to roll my foot a specific way to take pressure on a particular part of my foot.

My girlfriend's mom gave me an allovera(spelling) plant yesterday, and she told me to cut it in half and let the gel rest on the achilles. I did so last night, and it does feel better, but this just may be the fact that I did not run yesterday

I plan on taking a couple of days off. Racing this weekend is a no no...even if my coach says so. Looking after my best interests is what I need to do because this will ultimately look after the team's best interest when we go compete outdoors. who cares about the indoor season.

I just do not want to f my achilles so badly that I will be out of competition for the entire season.

So, does anyone have any ideas of good cross training methods. yesterday I went to the gym and lifted like hell. Mostly out of anger, but also because I wanted to get some kind of workout.

I remember in Sub4 when Alan was lifting beastly, and when he got back to the track everyone noticed a huge difference in his shape and size. I do not want to get that big because...well I probably dont have that much time, and I would rather stay lean.

Thanks everyone for giving me advise; I was ignorant and oblivious of the consequences on running on an injury.

Good running and train smart.

Elliptical is always solid. If you keep your heart rate above 150...you can keep in relatively good aerobic shape on most cardio equipment (bike, elliptical, nordictrac). I use cross training a lot and just include it in my regular mileage because to compete at the level I wish to I need somewhere around 70 miles of "running" - which is impossible on pavement for me.

Pool running is also good.

Hopefully your injury will respond quickly. Take at least 2-3 days off and ice to get the inflammation down. Then, you can start doing the eccentric calf stretches. They seem to work wonders for most people.

When you are ready to run (7 days likely) run some easy tempo on grass or other soft surface.You will not lose much shape at all if you only miss 7-10days, but you need to heal.

good luck

I went to the trainer today, and they felt this huge knot on the bottom of my calf. They put a heat pad on it for like 15min, and then they hooked electrodes onto my calf for about another 15mintues to loosen up the knot. It felt better for a little bit, but it seems to be back to the same ol crap. I am not going this weekend...i heard our 400 hurdler is running the 800 and our 800 guy will run the 1200. If I could run by Thursday, what should I do Thursday, Friday, Sat and Sun? All easy runs on a light surface(4-10miles)?

How about don't run. I tried to tell you this before it got to this stage a couple weeks ago because I went through the same thing and make the same stupid mistake and tried to run through it, on two separate occasions. I did not improve much, every run was painful, and it took me 2 to 3 months of no running both times to be back to no pain.

In the mean time ice, ibprophen, ultrasound, heat, etc. Try to get any swelling down. Do some cross training, but before you start a workout stand in a hottub and warm the achilles up. What I did was aqua jog in the morning for 45 to 60 minutes and bike workout in the afternoon. Otherwise you can try elliptical in there too. If your achilles hurts doing any of these even a little bit, stop.

When your achilles is no longer tender and you can walk without pain, start the eccentric calf raises as someone stated earlier. 3X10. Do that for a couple days (~5) before you start running again and continue to do it for the rest of the season. When you start running again, start out slow and avoid speed work for a little bit until you are healthy. I repeat no intervals the first week back, even in the morning.

When your achilles heals enough to run again, your coach will destroy it with his ineptitude combined with your dutiful compliance. How much do you love running? If you don't care if you ever run a race again while healthy, and quite possibly throwing your running future down the crapper, the by all means continue on with this nonsense.

The waysides of our sport are littered with the broken bodies of forgotten robots.

$0.02

this has been like one of those movies where you know what is going to happen from the beginning, so predictable, so preventable.

sore achilles,

high intensity,

low volume,

in trainers,

injury . . .

you will never break 4:00 until you get a new training philosophy.

this feels wrong but anyone want to take an over-under on how many weeks this injury plagues our friend eddy lee.

i say 5.

banshii wrote:

When your achilles heals enough to run again, your coach will destroy it with his ineptitude combined with your dutiful compliance. How much do you love running? If you don't care if you ever run a race again while healthy, and quite possibly throwing your running future down the crapper, the by all means continue on with this nonsense.

The waysides of our sport are littered with the broken bodies of forgotten robots.

$0.02

I've only read a few pages of this thread, and I think this post sums it up the best. Eddy sounds like a stupid runner with a lot of motivation. Too bad.

"Train smart, not hard. "

eddylee wrote:

Total mileage: 29.5

The 9miler today hurt. It feels like my endurance is going down the drain.

I wonder why. SPEED is almost never what holds a runner back for races greater then 800m. ENDURANCE is what holds a runner back. Get FASTER from only doing one or two faster workouts a week. The rest is mileage to build up your stamina. The mileage will help you get MORE out of the speedwork outs you do. SPEED through STRENGTH. SPEED through ENDURANCE. Train endurance followed by speed endurance and a small amount of pure speed.

I am sorry for capitilizing all of those words but maybe it will help you get the message.

Okay, I went back and actually read the entire thread:

1. Holy crap, Eddy's female teammates at CSU are smoking hot. Good recruiting tool.

2. Eddy's coach is the reason why I want to go into college coaching. This guy's an idiot.

3. Eddy actually sounds like he knows what he's doing. He was following a great plan off Daniel's Running Formula. I would honestly recommend transferring to another school, or outright quitting the team. You say that you want to do anything to accomplish your goal of sub-4... does that mean walking off the team? No doubt you have the talent to break 4 on your own intelligence and training. But under this coach, you'll likely peak way too soon and get yourself injured.

4. I'm bookmarking this thread. It has all the classic reasons of why high school and college runners underachieve. Bad coaching, not enough mileage, too much intervals, highly motivated kids who don't have the knowledge, short term success ("I had a great workout today!"), etc. Anytime you're running Personal Records in PRACTICE, you are doing something wrong!

Good luck, Eddy.

Alright Eddy, I'm going to try to get in on this too. I also hope to run sub 4 for 1500m this spring. Maybe seeing your workouts will help motivate me. Here is my background:

Physical:

22 years old

6'0"

150 lbs.

PR's:

1:57 Spring 2004

4:28i mile Winter 05

9:10i 3k winter 06

16:20r 5k winter 06

Ran in college, but had a lot of injury problems. Good luck trying to find me using an internet search, because I train by myself and coach myself.

Anyway, I just now started getting into my VO2 phase of training. Base phase went pretty well, I was running about 75-90 miles a week and doing tempo runs and fartleks. The end of my base phase wasn't as good (both in terms of mileage and workouts) because I got the flu. Just recovered and am ready to get back after it.

1/22/07

2.5 mile warmup, stretch, strides

6x1000m with 2 minutes rest between

2.5 mile cooldown, stretch

Interval times were 3:05, 3:06, 3:05, 3:06, 3:06, 2:57. Obviously I saved a bit too much, but it was the first workout like this I've done in awhile, and I was used to my body dying when I had the flu so I didn't hammer in the middle in fear of not being able to finish the workout.

Racing 3k this weekend, aiming for 9:15