My goal of sub 4:00 1500-I will not stop until I reach my goal.

I appreciate the positivity in this thread. Very welcoming.

I'm going to be putting together my own schedule in a few weeks but I was looking for anyone's insights to add to my thought process for that.

Ran 3 miles on the track in 20:56 (7:02, 6:58, 6:54), had a little bit left in the tank, maybe not another 7 minute mile but we'll see as I'm running a 4 miler in central park saturday. Been doing 3 minute intervals with 2 minute jog at about 3:05-3:10 800 pace (6x). 16 weeks of running, been at about 35mpw for the last 8-10 or so. These last 5 weeks have been the only sort of speed I've done.

Probably going to throw in some more track workouts and go for a late summer 5K, where I'd like to break 20:10 but that might be adventurous. Then up to 45 mpw.

Any ideas, workouts, structure -- jonesy, sair, whomever?

Thanks a bunch.

if you won't get injured, there is one MAIN thing that will help you reach your goals... slowly but surely up your mileage. i promise it will help. you'll feel a huge difference when racing. even if you just work it up to that 45mpw a little sooner than you planned on. push it up a few mpw, every week.

in my opinion, more quality mileage is the key for people at your stage.

keep up those workouts too. just don't do the same ones every week. rather than all 3min intervals, sometimes start with like a 10 min and progress down to shorter and faster ones.

(ps. sorry if you already mentioned somewhere earlier that your body doesn't do well with more mileage. if that's the case, do some cycling, elliptical, or swimming if you can)

sweeney todd, I agree with the last poster. you should be able to bump the mileage up now that you've been consistent for a couple months. In 2005-6 (spring), I was at your mileage, getting injured frequently, and racing, at best, 19:13 for 5k, and then I was able to run on dirt roads and trails and quickly got up to 60 mpw. See if you can run more on trails as you increase your mileage. Get in a long run, 90 minutes or more, once a week, and hopefully make it a progression run when you feel good. You're essentially doing 6x800 w/2 min. jog. That's good. Obviously, you can try 8x400, moving up to 16x400 eventually. I do all one set. Then up and/or down ladders are good--1600,1200,1k,800,1k,1200,1600, or lower distances. for speed, try the 12x200s and work up the number and speed. Take it easy on the speed work early. gradually build up. strides/drills (high knees, butt kicks, etc.). short hill sprints. longer hill repeats.

tempo runs (3M-10M), 1M,1.5M,1M with 4 min jog on hilly course. anyway, a few ideas.

eddy, my guess is that you're at 17:40 right now.

1740 yikes....i thought i was a little faster.

I have a 5k race this saturday. I'll let you know how it goes. I may need to restrategize how fast to take out now.

I reckon you'll go faster eddy. You're obviously in base mode and your workouts suggest a not-so-fast time, but I just can't see you running slower than 1 min slower than your PR unless it's a very tough course. So I'm going to bet ~17:10, or your PR+1:00, whichever is faster (can't remember your PR!).

Sweeney todd, I think everything's been said! Seems like good advice. Don't get too carried away upping mileage and intensity though, you appear to be making steady progress, and 16 weeks isn't that long to be running, if you don't have a running/sport background before then. You're introducing your body to something new and challenging as it is.

Welcome to the thread!

Thanks very much Sair. I ran 4 years in high school, very limited after that, but I have some experience (23 yrs old). I appreciate the advice, just basically want to know whether or not to do 4-5 more weeks with some varied track workouts and run a 5K then go back to base and up the mileage, or start a new base now, or do new track workouts while increasing the mileage. Overthinking, yes, but curious nonetheless. Thanks.

M: AM: 4.5

PM:2mile w/u

5x[2x(200Rpace+200Recovery)+ 1x(400Rpace+400Recovery)]

200s were between 37-39

400s were between 76-79

1.5 c/d

Total:8.5

T: 10

W: 2mile w/u

6x1mile w/ 1min rest

604, 559,559,605,610, 606

1.5 c/d

Total:9.5

TH: 9mile 6:47 pace

F: AM: 6.25

PM: 4.25

S: 2.5 mile w/u

5k race: 16:42

1mile c/d

S: 13mile 1:30:13 about 6:56 pace

Total: 71.5miles

1642 for the race...really, really suprised.

I felt flat during the warmup, but felt rather good doing some strides. Simply put, I am very pleased.

Why is this thread still here. Its like three or four guys that chime in and talk. Its called email. That way none of the rest of us have to deal with this dumb thread!

In my opinion it doesn't really make too much of a difference at the moment Sweeney, so I'd go with whatever you feel most comfortable with. You might find you just have to scale back the track workouts a little for a while, as you adjust to the higher miles, but you can make that call as you go along. It might be worth taking those track workouts onto grass/trail for a few weeks if you are increasing miles though, just to be that little easier on the body.

Well done EddyLee! Wish I'd predicted faster. You're obviously responding well to the base training.

Going to extend the season another 4 weeks for an August 16th 5K. Let me know how this looks:

July 21-27

Tuesday - 3x2 miles at 10K pace with 90 sec. rest

Wednesday - fun 5K with my little cousins (tempo run)

Thursday - 45 minutes

Friday - 8x400 at 1500 pace with 60 sec rest

Saturday - off

Sunday - 70 minutes and strides

July 28-Aug 3

Monday - 3x1500 at 3K speed with 3 minutes rest

Tuesday - 50 easy

Wednesday - 8x200 at 800 speed with 60 sec rest

Thursday - off/travel day

Friday - 60 minutes, acceleration/buildup run

Saturday - 45

Sunday - 50

Aug 4 - Aug 10

Monday - off

Tueday - 7x800 at 5K pace with 30 sec. rest

Wednesday - 50

thursday - 55

Friday 4x1K at 3K speed with 2:30 rest

Saturday - 50

Sunday - 80 buildup run

Aug 11 - Aug 17

Monday - off

Tuesday - 4xmile at target 5K pace with 60 sec rest (not sure if this is too close to race to do)

Wednesday - 40

Thursday - 35 and strides

Friday - off

Saturday - RACE

Then I'll start up the base. The 2nd and 3rd weeks of this plan incorporate a 6th day of running so I'm not drastically upping mileage, I thought it was a safe way to go about it. Still keeping 2 track days but at aerobic paces. I appreciate any feedback.

Seems good. Some of the recoveries are shorter than I could do (e.g. the 800s and miles at 5k pace) but if you can manage that controlled and with good form then no reason not to.

Don't be a slave to the schedule though; listen to your body, and don't be afraid to reschedule or even skip a workout here and there (e.g. the 3x1500m might be a little too difficult with the day before's 70min run in the legs).

If you're serious about the 5k, I'd cut back to 3xmile the week of (or even 2xmile if it's your mini-peak race).

Also, probably worth experimenting with, but I find I feel better if I take a day off 2 days before a race, and run 35 easy with strides the day before - that way my body's still in the groove.

sweeney todd, the workouts look pretty good, but some of them might be overly ambitious. you are doing 1500s at 3k pace, 1k's at 3k pace, 400s at mile pace, and then doing repeat miles several days before your target race. If you can handle all those workouts at that pace, fine, but I might dial those back a bit to the next distance pace (1500s at 5k pace instead 1k's at a pace between 3 and 5k), and you should definitely drop the repeat miles the week of the big race, opting instead for race pace 600s, no more than 4.

eddy, did I say 17:40? of course I meant 16:40. but seriously I was fooled by the 6+ pace on your mile repeats when you were doing solid paces on longer runs. nice job in the 5k. depending on the difficulty of that road course, that suggests that you're not far from your 5k track pr level right now.

M 14.7

a.m. Durham, NH-Dover, NH-5.5M-44:41, to pick up cah; p.m. Burlington, VT-9.2M-1:05:05 (middle 7 in 46:48 (7:30,6:55,6:52,6:27,6:31,6:25,6:08). being passed early helped.

T 14.5

Burlington, VT: a.m. 5.5M-61:26 w/stroller, 15min lake swim; p.m. 9M-68:59. w/short swim, 1/2M-2:49 (uphill); full rest/stretch;

5xMile (1 min. jog rest)-5:54 (up),5:31,5:37,5:34(down),5:43

W 13.1 1:43:43

1.8M w/u, lake swim, 11.3M-1:29:40. gradually picked it up to 7 pace w/7:24,7:12,6:58,6:59, then c/d. worn down.

Th 13.6

noon-6.5M w/stroller, slow. evening-7.1M w/1.8M w/u, lake swim, got tired quickly, then 4M tempo-24:51 (6:13/M)-7:02,6:22,5:50,5:37. didn`t warm up properly. last 2M-11:27, last 2.5M-5:47/M

F 12.2

a.m. slow 5M; p.m. after thunderstorms, a humid, slow 7.2M in over an hour. sluggish in re-adapting to 100M weeks, or lacking sleep or inadequate calories?

Sa 23 4:44:20 S. Woodstock, VT: paced ultra runner for last 23M of VT100 miler. he's a tough s.o.b. some walking on hills. huge t-storm.

Su 12.2 1:31

Burlington, VT: in midst of deluge. felt good again. slow five hour run just what I needed. middle ten in 71:35 (7:51,7:14,similar ...,6:57,6:57,6:42).

Week: 103 miles.

sub-7s were easy today as well, so I seem to be returning to form. That five hour slow run on Saturday had a similar function to the three hour runs that Kenyans do at nine minute pace, refreshing the legs. will try to tempo a local 5k trail race tomorrow.

Hey Guys... everybody is looking real good. Welcome aboard Todd. No input from me regarding your workouts... I think Sair and Jonesy did a great job on the advice.

Eddylee, great time on the 5K race. 16:40 in mid July indicates you're going to have an awesome xc season!

Jonesy... real impressed with the mileage. Man, I don't see how you do it. I can't seem to get much above 60. Regardless, so far it seems to be working. When's you're next race? You seem to be zeroing in on some longer races coming up.

Had a 5k race Sun 7/20. Ran a 18:53 Course was mostly flat until the end. 10th overall. Really pleased. Felt strong and know that the work thus far is paying off. I think my 5k times as well as my mile time are going to continue to drop. The heat/humidity combo here in the midwest is really starting to get bad.

Best Regards

Damn Jonesy, awesome job on your 100+ week.

I would like to be able to do this workout: 5xMile (1 min. jog rest)-5:54 (up),5:31,5:37,5:34(down),5:43.

Are you training for a 10k?

When is your next race?

I would like to build my long run, but I think I may keep it at 1:30-1:35 max. I'll just get in more mile as I get faster.

I am thinking about doing the San Jose Rock n Roll Half Marathon on Oct. 10th(if that is the right date). Anyone want to join???

eddylee, I don't see the need for you to add to your long run at this point. you're doing those at a good pace. your mileage is high relative to what you've done in the past, so you should improve. running lots of really slow miles isn't going to help much. I would have thought that you could do that 5xmile workout, as I was pretty unhappy with the pace (I know that you've done something like 3xmile closer to 5:10, probably off more rest, and I've done 3x1600 with people LAST YEAR on the track at 5:11/5:10/5:24 (think that was 400 rest and I got dehydrated on the third one). I'm racing a five miler in central park in mid-August. I'd like to do something on the track but there don't appear to be any track meets in Vermont in the summer and I don't know that I can get down to Manchester, NH or any of the several places in Massachusetts for the weekly track series. So, I'm looking toward a half marathon--probably Grete's Gallop, in NYC--in September or early October, and then the NYC marathon in November. I'll try to get down to NYC for the fifth avenue mile as well. I'd like to get under 4:40 there. I ran 4:48 last year off terrible splits, 66/81 (2nd quarter is uphill)/72/69. couldn't handle the early pace, which was actually much faster than 66 pace, but then had a nice kick at the end.

very good race, radical ron, and don't worry about emulating anyone's mileage. just build gradually, or pick a mileage and increase the intensity, and do most of it on good broad, soft trails with level footing, plus dunk your feet in a bucket of ice for 20 minutes and take slow, easy days when you don't feel strong.

Hey Jonesy... Yes.. buckets of ICE. I've been doing that and it has been working. Right foot is doing much better. In addition, I took a couple of days off this past week. It was a smart move. As I stated in a previous post, you and I cannot afford to be down.

Looking to run another 5k race this coming weekend. I'll update.

I did a ladder workout this evening. 1200 - 800 - 400- 200 - and on back up ... Poured it on and ran the 200's in 31. It felt awesome. Legs and arms are coming around. Take care!

200s in 31, very quick for your stage in comeback and quicker than i've run in any workout in the comeback. just keep working on the aerobic strength and you'll be way under 4:20 1500m before you know it.

by the way, kansas city smoke track club just won the men's national club championship. could be the club for you to work with, if I'm remembering right that you're in kc.

Hey Jonesy, Thanks for the encouragement. I hope you're right. During my last speed workout I wanted to feel the leg turnover that I once remembered and I think it's still there. BTW, I turned 37 on the 19th, so I'm catching up to you.

Anyway, ran a 5k race yesterday morning. My finish time was 20:04. Ughh! I'm finding out that I don't know how to race a 5k given my level of fitness. My first mile was in 5:47 and the 2 mile was 12:16. The rest was just "hang on." It was extremely humid, but still I think that's no excuse. Even though the course was flat as can be, I think I went out way too fast.

Hope all is well and look forward to your critique and advice. Long distance in xc wasn't my strong point, however, because of that I'm motivated to want to get better and excel at 5k+ because it seems there's a 5K race somewhere every weekend.

Yes, I'm in the KC metro area. I'll continue to look into the KC Smoke Track Club. It seems they're a group for elite runners looking to extend their abilities beyond the university level. It might be there's a place for me as I continue to improve.

Best Regards and hope you're improving as well!!

ron, I'm pretty sure that tempos with a group (plus long runs and longer intervals with less rest) will get you over this 5k barrier you're facing.

M 15.1

VT: a.m. 5.5M-1:04:22 w/stroller; 15 min lake swim. qds sore; p.m. 9.6M-1:12:08 (9:17,indet.,6:55,6:47,3:24-1/2M,6:49,7:02,6:43,6:56 (last 4-27:30)) easy,held back. turned corner.

T 15

aft.-5.5M w/baby-59:14. eve: 9M-85:49-t/f track, solo, all 100 j rest=1 min. except indic. 3x200-35,36,36; 200 j rest-1:24; 1200-3:57,1k-3:18,800-2:38,600-1:57,3x400-74,75,75. lake swim on return

W 14.4 1:55:35

through torrents. biblical weather continues, prepare your arks. middle 12.2 in 1:35ish. mostly high 7's, down to low 7's near end.

Th 14.7

3 p.m.--4M slow; 7:30 p.m.:10.7M-1:16:07, big t-storm, w/6M tempo-35:19 (6:29,5:50,5:45,5:37,5:49,5:49), last 5M in 28:50. 2M easy c/d in 14:11 (7:11/7)! felt great/8M tempo was doable.

Fr 12.2 1:55:04

t/f Red Rocks Park, S. Burlington, VT, had nothing today. 33 min around park/vicinity.

Sa 16.3

a.m. 5.5M w/stroller-54:38, lake swim; 5 p.m.-1.8M then stopped for t-storm; 8 p.m.-9M-mostly low 8 min miles right after dinner.

Su 17 2:14:30

t/f Colchester Causeway (to 1.5M Spit)-16.4M-2:08:40 (~1:03:50/1:02:46). much at 7-7:20 pace. w/earlier run (.6) interr. by family.

Week 104.7 miles

good week, very pleased with solo tempo at 5:46 for last 5 miles, could have continued at that pace for 2 more, and this was in the middle of a thunderstorm, with lots of dodging of puddles. on tuesday I couldn't do the trail race because the car battery was dead. maybe this week.