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| Sair |
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Research phD student in science in Europe. Was competing for the college and my local club in cross-country races til march (allowed, as the college races and interclub races are separate). Have had good XC seasons the last few years, but due to academic pressures and unfortunately timed injuries I haven't done a track season in 3 years, which was what this year was supposed to be about. PBs are 10k 32:31 (last year, not at full fitness), 5k 15:34 (3 years ago), 3k indoors 8:53 (3.5 years ago), 1500m 4:21 (5 years old - that one's come close to being beaten mid-3k a few times), 800m 2:05 (3 years old). I'd expect to beat any of them if I stepped onto the track in a week or two (maybe not the 800m, I'm not fast). Last track race was a poor 3k in December, 9:01 - not sure why I ran badly, possibly overworked, was in poor form at the time anyway. Minimum goals for the season: sub 15, sub 8:40, sub 4:07, preferably faster. |
| lazeeman |
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I read this a long time ago, have not reread it in ages, and am too lazy to read much more. Can someone tell me if the OP broke 4 minutes? |
| dingle |
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no, overtraining did him in |
| lazeeman |
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Thanks. back to napping. |
| Blind eye |
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Hey, congratulations to eddylee. He said he would not stop until he reached his goal. I can only assume he reached it since he has stopped posting. Congrats!!! what time did you run eddylee?? |
| jonesy. |
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sair, you'll get all of those times this year. i ran 9:32.9 3k tonight, just a hair slower than last week--in fact, I think that they stopped the watch late (things were pretty casual tonight), as the clock had just turned from 31 to 32 when I crossed. 94 degrees and very humid, in the hours before the race. tried to follow sair's strategy, and in fact I partly succeeded at that, as my last 1400m was about 5 seconds faster than last week; I blew it in the second 800. 74,2:30 (then the rest of the race was solo),3:48,5:07,6:24,7:42,8:21(2600m), no split at 2800m. last 400 in 71. thought I'd die if I stayed with the lead group, which I probably would have done. w/in about ten minutes after the race, I agreed to do the 4x400, anchoring the slowest team in 62.03, without much of a running start. that's the fastest 400 I've done since college, by about 4 seconds, my legs were still shaky from the 3k finish, I didn't get out hard enough and there was no one in sight to run with. Given my limited speed training this year (no 200s faster than 32, just a few sub-70 400s), this seems like something to build on, to get my 400 back down to 56-58, which would help my 1500 pace seem less like sprinting, maybe get me an 800m pr (2:05.8, from 1990, after my injury). I have lost a good deal from my May shape. The explanation, aside from dropping from 100 to 80 mpw and leaving medium altitude, I believe, is that I haven't gotten any quality track workouts since the day I left Albuquerque (just a 5x1600, mostly in 5:45-5:53, and four track races) but I am going to remedy that and try to restore some of my strength prior to the 5k on the 22nd. The 16x400 at 72-4 with 45 second rest that I did prior to the 16:04 5k is worth repeating, and I could use some longer, but better quality repeats. |
| Recent Sub 4 |
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Yeah jonesy to break 4 you need to be able to hit a sub 60 relatively easy and frequently.... its different for everyone but I was not able to break 4 until I was able to do 53s in race conditions (4x4)... hit the track...I would suggest something like 300 (100jog) 200 (100 jog) 500 (400 jog) and repeat three times...then a couple of all out 4s with 3 minutes recovery.... this work out seemed to help me...maybe do it once every other week. Won't take much to get some speed back...some drills would probably help much too. Good luck! |
| Sair |
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Don't underestimate the effect of those weather conditions jonesy, 94 is very very hot for track running, especially coupled with the humidity. Nice negative split all the same, 5:01 pace for the last 1400m. Recent sub 4, any advice/ideas you might have, throw them in! What pace do you aim for on the 3-2-5s, 800m-1500m? What drills did you find useful? I have a few drills and plyos I do, but I'm never sure what's working well in terms of actually improving speed. Thanks. |
| Radical Ron |
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Jonesy, good show on your efforts the other night. I agree with Sair, the heat and humidity is a factor. Keep it up! You're moving in the right direction. Just look at Tony Young... the man ran a low 4:16 mile the other week at the age of 46. Very inspirational. I ran 66 mins yesterday afternoon. All of it mostly on grass and trails. Didn't run too fast, but my feet and knees felt tons better. I've been having some pain with my right foot, particularly in the left/upper portion of the arch. This did not occur while running yesterday. Sair... thanks for the info regarding workouts and your times. We're all pulling for you to reach those goals. Keep it up! |
| D1 Guy |
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Guys, keep up the good work and definitely KEEP POSTING. Dont let the letsrun haters get u guys down. It's great having a chance to read other peoples training and where better than letsrun? Sair, I like that 8k on grass, 5 min jog, 3200m on track workout man. I'll definitely be giving at one a shot sometime in the future. With the stuff you are doing now, you are guarenteed to crush your times! |
| Recent Sub 4 |
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Sair is right about the heat...dang near impossible to run a fast time in conditions like that...sounds like your running in Houston jonesy? The 3-2-5. I typically shot for 300 in 46, 200 in 30, and 500 in 78...the 3 and the 2 were pretty easy (or relaxed feeling), its the 500 that busts your butt and it was rare that I hit the 500 time on the middle set. Another work out that I think really helps is 2X1200 followed by any type of ladder speed work. Maybe like 2x1200 then 600, 500, 400, 300, 200....it is a pretty well known work out, or at least I have seen it mentioned on Letsrun a couple of times, so you may already be doing it. To me this was probably the biggest help. That 2X1200 really works you, it should be about 3-5s slower than 1500 pace/ lap, you should be exhausted after them(seems fast now, not sure if that is completley accurate on the 1200 pace). Rest 3 or 4 minutes after the 1200s then get going on the ladder. ( I never really worried about times too much in this work out. My goal was to treat it as to separate workouts, be exhausted after the 2cnd 1200 to the point where that would be a decent work out alone, then just go 60 second pace or better on the ladder section.) I was always surprised how much I had left for the ladder part. Really teaches you to kick when your tired at the end of the race. Anyway, sorry for the ramble... As for drills, just simple high knees, butt kicks, lots of strides starting from some very very slow build ups, a little bounding, and of course lots of stretching. (I used to not stretch but noticed a HUGE difference when I started). Drills, at least for me, mainly worked on my form which translated over to better speed. Someone else probably has a better idea of drills than I do. Good Luck fellas. |
| Problems! |
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Thanks guys. If it's of any interest regarding times, I finished high school with PRs of 31:05 8k(road) 19:05 5k, 10:44 2mile, 4:44 1500m (on a grass track though) (after 3 years running), finished undergrad college with the times listed above, feel like I'm nowhere near my limits yet. So I guess a lot of my motivation is to see how far someone of limited 'starting ability' can go with hard training, and I never get tired of beating people who used to be minutes ahead of me. That, and I have to say, I love training, more than racing in fact. D1 guy, if you have any inputs, or ideas, or want to post your own training, fire away! (That applies to anyone else reading as well). I know you may be under restrictions if you're still in a college program though. Mon:AM 65min easy PM 55min easy inc hill sprints, plyos. Tue: 20min wu, 3x3lap H park hard, 2:30 recovery (12:38, 12:38, 12:31), 20min cd. Tough. PM 6.25 mi treadmill. Wed: AM 41:30 easy. PM 1hr easy. |
| Sair |
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Sorry, last post was by me. Thanks for the workouts sub4, I'll be sure to try them once I'm a little further along. |
| jonesy. |
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ron, sair, sub 4, thanks for the support. i appreciate it. sub 4, congratulations on your time. that is tremendous. those workouts are great, and i'm going to go after them, probably by adding some to the club workouts next week or just doing them straight once i'm on my own up in burlington, vermont in a few weeks. i'm in nyc now, but we had a real texas-style heat wave for three or four days. workout tonight is a 1M, 1.5M, 1M on the roads in central park, with 1.6M jog interspersed in that. 5k pace, 10k, 5k pace. then I decided to jump into the father's day 5 miler sunday to get in a good tempo or better, then I'll get in two shorter speed sessions next tuesday/thursday. in the meantime, I'll get in the daily drills and some strides. I think that the hard strides last thursday and sunday helped my 400 time. |
| Radical Ron |
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Hey Jonesy, I was reading back through this thread and you stated you were injured for 15 years and couldn't run. What kind of injury was this? That seems like a long time to have an injury that kept you from running. Thanks, Ron |
| slightly older |
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Don't listen to this guy. Your thread has been inspirational and it has given me a few workout ideas for when/if I finally get healthy again. I haven't posted anything yet because I'm still injured and too slow anyway (although I'm hopefully almost over my injury--I ran 15 whopping miles last week at about 9-10 minute pace plus a few strides pain free). I'm willing to bet there are a LOT of others like me reading this thread. It's also nice seeing people give mostly constructive feedback on this thread rather than the usual letsrun hate. |
| jonesy. |
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ron, it was ridiculous--i had patellar tendonitis all those years. right after the injury, which happened during training camp, the college trainers, at the beginning of my junior year, first put me on the leg weight machine (lift foot up to parallel to thigh, they told me), on maybe 15lbs. i couldn't bend the leg for a month. so, when i came back to the trainers, they just put me on ultrasound, 3xday icing and heat. I couldn't run more than a mile without the knee tightening up and I couldn't use the left leg to walk up stairs until last summer. ran my 800m pr's the following spring after the injury, training only in the pool and on the bike. a few years later, I heard that Michael Jordan had tendonitis as well, so I figured that there must not be a cure for it. In 2001, 12 years after the injury, a physio w/UNH showed me the simple exercises with ankle weights that will cure the tendonitis. after 2 1/2 years of doing those every other day, I started running ten miles a week, kept doing the exercises, and finally last summer was strong enough to try the same type of leg weight machine when i was out at stanford. this time, starting at 10 lbs, I did it with some of the old soreness, but after a week was able to walk up stairs again. wed 14.5M today 16.5M on the roads in central park, team workout: 5.15M in 30:40 with 2:40 jog, 1M (a bit up)-5:09, 4:20 jog, 1.5M (a bit down)-8:04 (2:47/5:17), 5:40 jog, 1M-4:57 (or maybe 4:55, went to the far line, a down mile). rests were long, heat wasn't much of a factor, by far my fastest for this workout. prior to Albuquerque, I had only done the first in 5:25?, second in 8:22, and third in 5:09. |
| Radical Ron |
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Hey Jonesy, thanks for the info. It's cool to see that you've rebounded and are on the upswing. I'm sure you have much unfinished business to settle before the body simply won't cooperate anymore. From looking at the results of your workout on thur, I think you are on your way. Those are great times for a workout. It seems the tons of miles you've been running is paying off. You're able to hang in there and run fast especially in the heat and humidity. You're breaking through. As for me, I've been building a base now since last July. As I stated before, prior to my running renaissance I had not done much running since Indoor 1993. Currently, my theory is that I need this base to build on before hammering the track in interval training. I reason this will help in preventing injury because my body may not be prepared. Time is too precious when the clock is ticking at 36. With that being said I'm planning starting the speedwork when I can manage a sub 5 min 1600m. Right now, my best is 5:16 and I think I can hit this in the next month. What do you think regarding using the 1600m sub 5 minute time as a gauge? |
| jonesy. |
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radicalron, my opinion is that you should start track intervals now, but probably skip the high speed stuff, because you're going to need some 5 minute pace stuff to get down under 5 for a race soon. of course, you were a much better runner than I'll ever be, so take my advice with a grain of salt. but I started getting faster by running 4-6 mile tempos (weekly, often alternating with workouts like thursday's) and 400-2k intervals at 5k-10M pace usually. why not try some 3xmile, with a 400 jog, 5x800 with a 200-400 jog, 8x400 with a 200 jog? at first just target sub-6 minute pace for the repeat miles, sub-2:50 for the 800s, and sub-80 for the 400s. try beginning the track sessions with a jog to the track and an easy 3x200 at no faster than 40. if that stuff is easy, you can pick up the intervals, shorten the rests, and increase the number of reps. sair, looking forward to see what you can do in a race. your improvement from hs is extraordinary and those workouts you've done suggest you're going to run some very fine times this year. |
| jonesy. |
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81 for the week, including one day off. m off t 11.5 3k-9:32, 400-62.03 w 14.5 th 16.5 1M-5:09, 1.5M-8:04, 1M-4:57 (or 4:55) f 14 glacially slow sa 11 what is slower than glacially slow? legs done. su 14.6 hilly 5M race in 27:33 (5:30/M). pr by 58 seconds and probably lost 5 seconds at the start standing, walking, etc. from the crowd. 70 degrees and 93% humidity at start. 5:40,5:16,5:40,5:35,5:22 legs were fresher than the past couple days. didn't have the spring or pop in them, but a breakthrough for this distance. also set a 4M pr enroute by 5 seconds (22:11-but last 4M were in 21:53, a 23 second pr). surprised to run this well, given that I was struggling to run sub-9 minute miles saturday morning and friday night. |
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