My goal of sub 4:00 1500-I will not stop until I reach my goal.

The faster pace of the 1500m first which I won't be ready for, will make the 5000m 3 hrs later seem easy. I didn't suffer from this double when I was out of shape in March, nor from the bad 1500m/3k double last June, where the 3k was a bit better than the 1500m. In any case, this gets me tries at the two pr's while still training at altitude and the weather is hopefully decent. I'll do the more advisable singles at Boston or St. John's or June Icahn or whatever I can round up later.

I respect what Boingo is able to accomplish (far more than I'll ever do) on light mileage, few hard tempos and mostly sub-vo2 max distance intervals (seems to be mostly under 1k and at mile race pace), but I think that next year when he's out of the college system, he might get some big drops from 1500m-10k by doing those other things. Doing essentially the same type of workouts with lots of racing since February or earlier, he's sort of stagnated with the results and I think that he's a good enough talent to have really dropped some time. But then injuries play a role and he's hopefully about to run some excellent races here at the end of the season.

thursday 10.1 easy, 8 minute miles. did 5xstrides along the way.

4:00.82 at Icahn. Split 50, 64, 64, 62.5. Under our old school record (they're pretty weak, in general) and ECAC qualifying. I get one more race, at least, to go under 4.

I think I can do better (I was nervous, so I slept really poorly). Thanks for all the kind words, jonesy. I'll hopefully keep this thread alive past my season to post what I do after graduation.

wow, great job! that's tantalizing. you can get that! nice finish.

i ran 4:20.9 1500m (totally out of my element, lacking the speed training for that race, and soon far behind and running a time trial without a lot of splits! great meet but put out a clock or at least call splits!!!), a 1.8 second pr from 1989.

in the evening, I ran 16:04.24, a 16 second pr from 1989 (sophomore year of college). I felt great and I totally had sub-16 in my legs, but a couple decisions--not following one guy that finished in around 15:54 or better, failure to really go after it with four laps to go--and the near total absence of splits doomed this. If I had heard the split with 800m to go even (and I asked for it), I might have felt the urgency to do it. I heard 10:15 at 3200m and that was pretty much it. I must have fallen off the 16 pace in that third mile, prior to the kick. I'm going to give this a try again in a couple weeks probably.

I was trained barely at all for 1500m (only a few 400s and 200s at race pace) but quite well for the 5000m, and even after doing the half marathon last Saturday, running the 1500m and spending a lot of time getting dehydrated, the 5000m felt like exactly what I was training to run.

hey man, go for it! As far as training for the 1500 goes i sugest reserching Steve Cram's training. (Dont do exactly as he did! That is suicide! Adapt it to your limitations.)The key is learning how to run fast every day with out straining, and knowing when you need a day off. I ran a 4:03 mile in college and i was going 4:00, but i steped in a pot whole and broke my anckle. It might work for you though.

not to deviate from the thread topic, but jonesy, i'm in albuquerque for the summer and am still trying to get my bearings. can you tell me what are some good runs in the NE section of town near the foothills? also, is the paseo del bosque trail paved or dirt, and is the rio grande right there parallel with the bosque? just looking for some places to get in some daily runs as well as long runs and tempos this summer. right now i am staying in a hotel on central, but after this coming week i'll be living on osuna right by tramway for the summer. thanks for any info you can give me

Nice work boingo - stating the obvious here but a faster first 300m and you'd have it... I'd say you'll get it next time.

Poor week for me, and ankle for no reason seems to have gone worse again.

Mon: Quads wrecked, 35mins easy outdoors. Teething period (getting back running) taking ages this time!

Tue: 4.5mi elliptical, 7.5mi treadmill.

PM: 3mi elliptical, 3mi treadmill.

Wed: 4mi outside ankle sore (fundraising relay), 1m easy treadmill, 6mi tempo 2 min break in middle 33:54. 2mi wd. ankle surprisingly ok.

Thur: 6.5mi elliptical 0.5mi run - had to stop, shin sore, treadmill tempo seems to do this.

Fri: Shin less sore but still a little tender, 3mi elliptical 6mi easy run treadmill. Ankle ok.

Sat: off (shin sore)

Sun: off (ankle sore again - where did that come from?)

altitude dude, I have to go out to run on the bosque (the trail on the east side of the rio grande) right now, so I'll say more later. the bosque trail is really about three different trails, soft dirt by the creek, hard dirt/gravel up above and a bike path usually on the other side of that creek/canal. at bridge st. at the national hispanic cultural center (Cesar Chavez to that point), there's a parking lot and you can get on the bike path either direction. north from there, you can run on the dirt/asphalt shoulder of the bike path 2.1 M to the full dirt path just after the path goes under the bridge at Central (where there is also a little parking lot for runners/walkers). from the gate there, you can go north either on the hard or soft dirt or the bike path for something more than 5 miles (it's probably about 9 miles) and it's marked every quarter mile on the hard dirt portion. for foothills, take i-40 east to tramway, go left on tramway and head right up to the top of virtually any road along tramway. you can park at the top of the roads. copper road, the second turn, is a good one, where henry rono supposedly trains at 7 a.m., indian school road a ways farther is good, spain road (to top, then right turn and into parking lot) is a couple miles or more further, but has a portajohn, unlike the others. if you go as far as the tram, I think that's where you catch the la luz trail, which will take you to the top of the mountains in about 7 miles. in the foothills you always get choices of running up, right or left. brandon leslie and matt gonzales, i understand from their coach, run parallel to tramway. for long runs, you can also go through some construction on the bosque south, or run along the arroyos from indian school road across from the unm north golf course.

altitude dude, to finish up what I know:

the Bosque trail's parallel to the Rio Grande. sometimes you can see the river. very little shade, so best early or late. there are also trails in the cottonwood forest toward the river, but these are unmeasured, winding, sometimes end, and unleashed dogs are the rule on those trails. lots of unleashed dogs also on the dirt road south of bridge blvd. for tempos, the bosque trail north of central is great. i use the gate as the 0 pt north. unm does its tempos on the trail at the 3 mile mark north (5 miles north of bridge blvd), by the nature center (i-40 west to rio grande, right on rio grande, left on candelaria a mile and a half up, then park on the last street to the right just before the nature center, since the nature center parking lot, etc. close at 5 p.m. the whole rio grande trail system is good for fast stuff and you can run from mile 2.5 north and further on the bike path or gravel, because they're side by side. i do long runs on the arroyos, but that's dreadfully boring and mostly paved.

friday off, resting for meet

saturday 11.5, 1500/5000, slow jogging.

sunday 10.5 very, very slow, 9 minute miles. not fresh from travelling. got up before 6 to catch flight back from l.a.

about 73.5 miles for the week with a day off and no chance to get my long run in on Sunday. pretty good week, broke two nineteen year old pr's, could have run 15:50s but didn't have the courage or the splits to go after it. had a good 4x1k,400 workout, a couple decent second halves of 14 or 12 mile runs, and then really slow everywhere else.

with sleep, w/o times should go back down soon.

monday 12.5 1:37:10 for 12.2. about a 7 minute drop on the return, 9's and 8's out, sub-8's back with 6:28 close.

had a couple good workouts finally last week

8x800m with 2 min recovery. 2:24, 24, 23, 23, 23, 22, 22, 20

5 mile progressive tempo run starting at 5:50 and ending at 5:10

boingo you are so close, that is awesome. can't wait to see you get in another race.

nice 1500m opener jonesy. considering the lack of speed training you have done thus far, that is a good run.

two excellent workouts, solo joe! get in a track race in ten days and try a schedule of a track workout next tuesday, a medium longer run wednesday, easy and slow thursday, and short and easy friday, before the race, so that you can get a good race in. I never say do a full taper, but when you're in pr shape, you have to get a race in, because the injuries and illnesses are always in the wings. so, you still get two tough workouts in, the tuesday and the race, and you still keep the mileage up, but you are pretty fresh for the race.

tuesday 14.5

a.m. 4.5M easy w/jogging stroller. couldn't run w/UNM track but it looked like maybe only emanuel was working out anyway.

p.m. 9.5M w/2x800,1xmile,2x800 @ UNM Johnson Field. w/Mark of ABQ RR. the 800s were about .01M short and the mile was right, but the surface is mostly loose gravel and it is pretty uneven. I took it pretty easy, raising intensity a bit. 3:09,2:51,5:38,2:38,2:33.

wednesday 12.5

Rio Grande, 12.2 in 1:21:24 (6:40/M).

out in 7:01 pace, back in 6:18 pace. gravel until last two miles.

7:48,7:27,7:03,6:33,6:48,6:39,6:29,6:32,6:36,6:20,5:39 (last half in 2:32, last quarter in :74).

felt good for the first time in two weeks and aside from tempos and races, hadn't run this fast since a 6:37 ten miler in early april.

thursday 12 w/3.8M tempo in 23:21 (6:08/M, distance might have been 3.9 as I did a bit extra) on rolling hills of unm north golf course. bonked on cooldown. nothing an ice cream bar, two gatorades, a hot chocolate, a sweet roll and a green chili burger couldn't cure before finishing the run. again couldn't get to the track to do work. will probably do a faster, longer tempo on the rio grande tomorrow and see when i can get on the track, as the new mexico state championships or sectionals or something seem to be going on down there friday and saturday. very rare cloudy, rainy, cold weather here.

Jonesy... what is your age? I'm 36 and getting back into it. I ran a 3:57 1500m in 1992. I'm averaging about 55mpw right now. I'm in the base phase. Looking to get to 60+. No speedwork yet. I ran my first 1600m in years a month ago and ran a 5:36. Two weeks later I dropped it to 5:26. My goal is to go below 5:00 on just mileage and then start speedwork. I'm planning on doing the half marathon Hospital Hill run in KC first week of June. Nice talking to you.

tuesday i did 3x3x300m with 100m jog between intervals and 3 minutes light jog between sets. basically ran 45 for all of them.

friday: 1500m debut. just me and a buddy of mine pacing. 66, 2:13, 3:20, 4:07.33. My buddy brought me through 1000m at 2:47, it was really tough but i feel like i could go faster now that i have a race under my belt, especially if i get in an actual race. my mile pr was equivalent to a 4:10ish so i just went out on pace to do that and had a pretty good kick the last 300m.

great job, solo joe! not exactly what i had in mind, but close enough. i don't know your region, but i'm sure that some good races are available--check directathletics.com--they list a lot of open races. nyrr's staging 1500m/3k races at icahn stadium may 20, and then a few times in june (all on tuesdays). boston has the high performance meets. i don't see why you can't get very close to 4 your next time out. nice close in sub 64 pace. and that was little more than a time trial.

ron, i'm 39. i was able to run again in 2004, ran 20:30 for a flat 5k after about 7 months (up to 12 mpw), the next year i ran 19:12 at the same race, the following spring I ran 40:12 10k after 2 years, with mileage in the 30s and 40s, then got the mileage up to 60-80 on dirt roads and trails in mali and nyc over the next 6 months. started doing workouts w/clubs in nyc, and ran sub-30 for 5 miles for the first time since college. that was fall 2006. after that the time drops came slower. 17:24 5k in the same race as before, then a 36:05 10k, a 35:48, a 35:19 on the track last year, along with 4:33 1500m and 16:37 track 5k, plus 1:19, then 1:18 half marathons and a 2:46 marathon debut. another seven weeks and I had run a 22:16 4 mile pr while sick and a 9:32 3k pr indoors while still recovering. but altitude and 100mpw, plus some training with unm athletes have got me above my meager college bests and well down on my half marathon. you should be able to run much faster than i have been, because your pr's were much faster and with health and hard training, people in their mid to late thirties have the potential to reach their college level. a guy in my 1500m heat last week had run 4:07 in hs, been injured and only came back after ten years, while still in his peak years, and he ran a 4:02 pr that day. i'm sure that you can break 4 again, but after a while definitely start doing workouts with a club where there are guys who can really push you.

friday 14M

a.m. 5M w/jogging stroller

p.m. 9M t/f highland h.s. track, solo:

3x200 warmup (100 jog-:54)-38,38,37;

5x1k (200 jog-1:28 avg.)-3:18,3:18,3:18,3:18,3:19

3x200 (100j-:54)-33,33,32.1

last 200 was my fastest 200 in comeback. not a very good workout. 80 was feeling pretty hard, but finished the 1k's stronger, usually in :36. hoping to get to get one last faster track w/o w/UNM on tuesday before driving back to new york for good.

right, and my left knee was finally strong enough to allow me to walk up stairs normally just last summer.

Well done solo joe! That's a great effort given the lack of adrenaline and drive that a race provides, and a PR too!. 4:04-4:05 the next time out.

Mon: 2.5mi elliptical, 9.5mi treadmill (7min/mile down to 6:00min/mile).

PM 6mi treadmill

Tue: approx same as mon (2.5elliptical 9.5mi treadmill in 60:53).

PM: 41:30 easy outdoors.

Wed: 3mi elliptical, 7mi treadmill 6:40pace.

Thur: 78min run, last 25 on treadmill, 20min in middle barefoot on grass - seeing if this helps).

PM: 43mins outdoors, not fast. Ankle good!

Fri: 20mins outdoors slow, 41mins elliptical (intervals - just to do something 'hard'), 20mins treadmill.

Sat: AM 1hr outdoors.

PM 35mins outdoors.

Sun: AM 3.25mi elliptical, 5.38mi treadmill, 22min outdoors - 20:30 tempo thrown in on treadmill. Keep hurting shin when I do treadmill tempo, so I'm working gradually up from 20 mins this time.

PM 38mins easy.

If I include elliptical miles the way boingo does, I think that might be my first 100+mile week back! Either way, >80miles of running. Not enough quality though, mostly lots of miles at 6-7min/mile pace.

Well blah. Not exactly how I wanted my last race to turn out. I went and warmed up for it, and my ankle/foot was bothering me, but only really when I leaned to the right on it - which isn't so much of a problem, unless they decided to run the 15 backwards. I jogged back to do some strides on the track...and I see my heat going by on the first bend.

There was a mixup with the schedule I got handed - my race was listed as 15 minutes later than it actually was. I even double-checked the thing to make sure I would start warming up at the right time, but I guess that really doesn't help if the schedule is wrong in the first place.

First time I've ever missed a race, and certainly not the one I would have chosen, if given the choice.

So I guess I'll start getting ready for next season now. Going to give myself two weeks off / on the bike, because my foot is still bothering me and I don't think it would be even remotely possible to run much on it now.

Even without the last chance to get under 4, I think the 4 years have gone pretty well for me. 5:25 -> ~4:18 is a pretty solid drop.

I'm not exactly hanging them up, either. I think this coming year I'd like to get my mileage up to more acceptable levels, since I'll no longer be training exclusively on concrete (hopefully, anyhow - if job stuff turns out okay). I'd like to see 80 consistently, instead of mid 60's that I hit for cross and mid 50's that I hit for track.

Also, like jonesy has often suggested, many more tempos and longer intervals. I'm going to pay attention to speed all year round, because I think it's one of my better assets as a runner, but I doubt it needs quite the emphasis during the winter and early spring. With some of those changes...I don't really know, but I think low 3:50's sounds realistic. Maybe even faster, just considering the mileage bump.

Good job on the time trial solo joe! I would expect much quicker next time out with the adrenaline of an actual race.

I'm all the more impressed with your comeback now that I know your age, jonesy. Sub 4 at almost 40 after quite a few years off would be pretty pimp.

Sair, I hope the shin & ankle problems clear up. I feel your pain about how frustrating it is to be stuck indoors for SO long.

Hey Jonesy,

Thanks for you kind words and encouragement. Also, I appreciate you sharing your progress. I think I can sub 4 1500m again and go even faster. I weighed around 135 while running at university. I'm up to around 146. So I haven't put on hardly any weight in 15+ years. You're right in that I need to get into a club where I can get pushed. All my training and time trials thus far has been solo. I live in the KC area. Anybody know of a club where guys are doing interval training for mid-distance?

Anyway... I'll stay tuned and give progress reports. Just finished a 57mile week.

I've got a few(5) young kids too. I'm going to have to try the jogging stroller routine! The one thing that concerns me is that it would seem difficult not being able to pump your arms properly and thus screw up your form.