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| Older Runners |
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How did Arthur address the issue of training for older runners, or did he at all? I noticed that the threads (especially the Lydiard vs. Daniels monster) dealing with the Lydiard approach seem slanted toward world class or top notch regional talent, or at least toward those who can reasonably expect to bag top 10-15 places in most competitions. What of those past the first bloom of youth? Were these the folks he addressed his minutes-instead-of-miles changes towards? Thanks. |
| Glenn McCarthy |
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Older Runner, Arthur ran every day when I was with him. He was 56 at the time. The Venezuelan runners he ran with (they ran an hour every morning together) complained about the agressive pace he made them run. Arthur would say endurance is the key. Run as much as your schedule allows for. He was coaching folks by mail from Venezuela. He was as proud of his 60 something year old guys who were running 30 mpw as he was of his world record holders. I guess you could say he went to minutes from miles for older folks, but I think it is more likely what I think Kim had said. Arthur did not want to put down a set schedule, but the folks who publish the books demanded he have something substantial for those who would buy the books to follow. Hope that helps. Glenn |
| Older Runners |
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Interesting. Thank you. |
| Kim Stevenson |
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I am well past the bloom of youth (58 yrs young) but I still run most days and just 14 hrs ago I was running with my top HS 800m runner (1:56 at 16). I have a group that runs with me on an average twice to 3 x a week .. all are or have been placegetters at Nationals. Also check out Masters rankings for the past year. Trevor Ogilvie was the Top Steeplechaser in the world last year at 55 - 59 age group. At the last WAVA Champs here in NZ he was awarded the top 10k runner over 35 in the World. His training is so Lydiard based you would wonder if the man himself had not had a hand in it. Actually his Coach .. was heavily biased by Arthur and Arch Jelley. If Trevor misses a 2 hr plus run on a Sunday it usually means he has a major problem !! The comments Glenn made about Arthu's "Distance" Coaching and scdules are all correct. |
| Kim Stevenson |
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Sorry to hog the limelight. A couple of other things. Trevor did not take up the sport till he was in his late 40's. If you check out the Lydiard/Daniels thread you will see me mention Coaching a buddy to a 29 : 40 10k ,50 min 10 miles and a 1:08 half Marathon all at over 40 years old. Cheers Team |
| eupov |
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Kim and Glenn, Do you have more info on your coaching and training philosophies for older runners? I am planning a masters "comeback" after 3 years of little or no running(and getting fat!) and I would like work with someone who knows masters running. eupov |
| Glenn McCarthy |
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Eupov, I honestly do not think there is any "magic" to working with "older" runners. I have been coaching a group of 40+ runners for over 18 years. We started incorporating some of their kids over the years so we have ages 15 to 75. As a returning runner, you need to be patient. That is usually the undoing of many talented runners who attempt a come-back after years away. If you have specific questions, feel free to write me an email and I'll get back to you within a day or two. Glenn |
| Kim Stevenson |
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Ditto here too mate. |
| eupov |
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I'll email each of you later. I know there is no "magic" to training masters properly. But I value the knowledge of a coach with 18 years of experience (with much of it geared specifically to masters). |
| HRE |
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In 1999 I was getting advice from Arthur in preparation for the WAVA Games in Gateshead. Really, nothing was different from things he'd had me doing in the late 70's. Recently I've had some advice from Barry Magee and I'd say the same thing. If you just looked at what I do and then looked at what a 28 year old is doing you wouldn't have an easy time telling who is 54 and who is 28. The thing that Barry does is have you keep track of how you're feeling, whether your AM heart rate is unusually high, etc. If I was having trouble at the level I'm doing, we'd cut back. If you read "Distance Training for Master's Runners" you wouldn't see much that's different than you would in "Running to the Top" (not to be confused with "Run to the Top." When I was getting ready for the WAVA Games Arthur had me on the traditional schedule with the phases. In recent years, when I've been hoping just to be in decent shape should I decide to race, I mix everything together. What you've got to work out for yourself is what you're able to do and want to do, then follow the principles. |
| luv2run |
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Considering his early charges were recovering from cardiac events I would say it works just fine. I also suspect that his approach to time v. miles was based on geography. IIRC, it was pretty hilly in that part of NZ so running miles takes on a different meaning than running miles in say south Florida. |
| 120 |
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The single capstone essentially is the 2-hour run, then; all else being either secondary? This would mean that if there is any single critical day of the week in Lydiardom it's the long run and one should aspire to be able to perform that solo 2-hour nonstop run asap when beginning? |
| ........ |
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good question |
| HRE |
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The long run is very important but Arthur always emphasized consistency. |
| aigle |
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I'm in my mid-fifties and Lydiard's general approach seems to be working for me. At my age I couldn't contemplate seriously applying philosophies based on lots of fast work. This is a summary of the year so far: Starting the end of February I slowed my running down and increased my mileage to its highest for twenty years. (The average is still in the sixties) I did a few strides now and again and on a couple of ten mile runs I stopped for some short hill sprints. Over the weeks it became easy to let the pace pick up in the later stages of some runs, whilst most weeks I'd do a long one from 1.45 to 2.20 'in the hills.' More to the point I thouroughly enjoyed my running. Following this 'base period', I had several weeks in which I did half a dozen Lydiard style hill circuits (with high knee lift; a brisk descent and strides on the flat) and a few fartleks. I've yet to do any real 'speed' work but recently I did a 5K half a minute faster than last year and was overtaking all the way. This week I did an intuitive Tempo run and starting soon I hope to do some track work using Daniels/McMillan as my guides for pace. I've lost weight and feel much stronger and more relaxed, and haven't had to miss any training due to illness or injury. |
| Ahaaaa |
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On Monday I did hilly long run of 60 mins in new shoes. DUM. Tuesday I did a mile on a very sore left foot, didn't want to chance another injury. I was cussing myself out quite a bit all day. Today I ran two miles, the tempo MUCH quicker as I adjusted my foot plant, driving from the heels. I ran MUCH faster and was huffing and puffing most unexpectedly. I am almost 55 by the way. That one hour long run, was my longest run in six weeks. Is this a typical reaction from a long run when you are coming back? |
| HRE |
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How much longer than other runs was that 60 minutes? It's sort of a vague question and I'm not really sure what you're referring to but if you'd been doing nothing more than short runs for six weeks then jumped to an hour it's not sur[rising that you had some trouble. |
| Yooooh |
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What would you suggest for someone making one last try at a comeback in their mid-50s from chronic PF? 10-15 minutes at the beginning? |
| HRE |
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I'm not real good at questions about coming back from injuries because I just hobble through them until they stop hurting. But I assume you can manage 15 minutes or so and that's why you mention it as a starting point? I would say to do that 15 minutes and if it's ok after a week maybe go for 17 minutes. If you can run for 15 minutes you probably can handle 17. Once you're sure 17 is ok go to 19, then 21, etc until you're back to the length of run you want to do. Just don't force anything. |
| another old guy |
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At 57 I got a calcaneal stress fracture that totally kept me from running (or walking without a limp) for 4-1/2 months. I just checked my log on what I did coming back. I mainly did it by feel, but my first 6 weeks back went like this: Wk1 8min every other day (I measured the path I ran and I was doing 1000m in that 8 min) Wk2 2mi/day (about 18min) and 12x100 strides on grass on Saturday Wk3 3mi/day, 15x100 strides Saturday, 30min run+60min walk on Sunday Wk4 3 mi/day, strides, 45min run+45min walk Wk5 3 mi/day, strides, 60min run+45min walk Wk6 3 mi/day, strides, 75min run+15min walk. After that I continued to build the mileage by about 5mi/wk total. Before the stress fracture I was running about 50mi/wk. I was never a high mileage guy, but more of a mid-distance type. Now, at 59, I am running about 60+ mi/wk and have been injury-free since the stress fracture. Good luck with your comeback. |
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