Who predicted this one a couple of pages ago and got bashed for it. Oh yeah its me. There is something a little suspicious when you hae 3 of the top 4 guys in a time trial and one just blows away the others.
Who predicted this one a couple of pages ago and got bashed for it. Oh yeah its me. There is something a little suspicious when you hae 3 of the top 4 guys in a time trial and one just blows away the others.
Once again, I find myself thoroughly annoyed by Phil's and Paul's insistence upon burying their heads in the sand. After Sinkewitz's positive test, I recall Phil stating boldly "well, now we know we have a good, clean, drug-free Tour; of that I am sure." Then they once again declare Vino's performances of Saturday and Monday "brilliant" and "heroic" reminders that the Tour is the "race of truth."
Come on, Phil and Paul. I'm not asking you to publicly question every rider or every performance. But to make such definitive proclamations of praise is downright reckless and complicit in the problem of cycling's doping. To assume, and insist, that Sinkewitz was the only "cheater" in the peloton, or that Vino's miraculous victories were the result of simple determination, is insulting, and indicative of the state of denial that pervades the sport of cycling.
I'm done - after following the Tour closely for 6 years, I have no more.
And for those of you who reply "but there is doping in other sports too; cyclists are probably cleaner because they are tested more," I ask you (as just one example) - if drugs are even more prevalent, why is Barry Bonds the only one nearing Hank Aaron's record?
Sean Kelly is usually better than them, definitely listen to him
Runningart2004 wrote:
PS: He'll test positive after the Tour, but who cares!
Since he's been testing negative DURING the Tour (yellow jersey gets tested every day) I'm guessing he won't test positive after. How would that work? In pure celebration of his victory he goes out one night and does some EPO and gets a pint of blood from some chick who matches his blood type?
Since we already know he's not riding the World Championships, his season is pretty much over after the Tour.
Rorkes Drift wrote:
And for those of you who reply "but there is doping in other sports too; cyclists are probably cleaner because they are tested more," I ask you (as just one example) - if drugs are even more prevalent, why is Barry Bonds the only one nearing Hank Aaron's record?
Because, moron, the drugs don't do it by themselves. You may like to believe that you could shoot up some magic juice, train for a few years and then go ride, nay, win the Tour. But you're wrong.
Or maybe it's because the pitchers are doping too.
hypnotoad wrote:
Rorkes Drift wrote:And for those of you who reply "but there is doping in other sports too; cyclists are probably cleaner because they are tested more," I ask you (as just one example) - if drugs are even more prevalent, why is Barry Bonds the only one nearing Hank Aaron's record?
Because, moron, the drugs don't do it by themselves. You may like to believe that you could shoot up some magic juice, train for a few years and then go ride, nay, win the Tour. But you're wrong.
Or maybe it's because the pitchers are doping too.
Yikes; no need for such vitriol, hypnotoad.
All I'm pointing out is that while cyling's defenders frequently hold baseball (along with football, American football, etc.) out as an example of a drug-infused sport, it is curious why sluggers from years ago still top the home run lists. Drugged up pitchers may be part of it, but one should know that pitchers don't seem to be getting any faster. Pretty much every generation since the early 1900s has boasted a supposed 100-mph pitcher, from Walter Johnson and Smoky Joe Wood to Bob Feller to Dalkowski to Nolan Ryan. If we stick with speeds registered since modern radar guns became ubiquitous in the 1970s, peak velocity seems to be a shade north of 100. Major League Baseball doesn't keep official records on pitch speeds, but the Guinness Book of World Records credits Ryan with the fastest pitch ever, a 100.9-mph heater from 1974.
Now, this is a cycling thread (on a running site), so I don't want to dwell on baseball (especially since I'm not an avid fan of the sport anyway). However, I simply want to suggest that the accusation of drug use in other sports, used as a defense of cycling's rampant doping problem, is hackneyed, perhaps overstated, and unquestionably irrelevant to the FACT that cycling DOES have a problem (regardless of what goes on, or does not go on, in other sports).
mink wrote:
Sean Kelly is usually better than them, definitely listen to him
if you can understand his mumbling brogue! yes, he's definitely more insightful, and less fawning, than those two goofs. pity that eurosport has teamed now with yahoo! and can't keep the audio feed up. good luck getting it most days.
Back to Contador and tactics.
One thing that I caught that nobody seems to be bringing up.
I think the reason he repeatadly attacked ras at the top of the last climb was because Hincampie was waiting up the road waiting for him to come over the top by himself?? I may be wrong but it seemed to me that the Disco thought process was that if Contador could shake Ras he would summit the mountain and work with Hincampie to put time into Ras who would be by himself??
I may be wrong.
Drugs or no drugs....tommorow morning will be intersting.
hypnotoad wrote:
Runningart2004 wrote:PS: He'll test positive after the Tour, but who cares!
Since he's been testing negative DURING the Tour (yellow jersey gets tested every day) I'm guessing he won't test positive after. How would that work? In pure celebration of his victory he goes out one night and does some EPO and gets a pint of blood from some chick who matches his blood type?
Since we already know he's not riding the World Championships, his season is pretty much over after the Tour.
Because his positive will come from a sample "not yet tested". These tests take time ya know. Also, his masking agents must be working right. Either that or he's just not taking anything right now. He took all he needed during training. Since he's leading he doesn't need to take anything. If he gets pummeled tommorrow you can bet your ass he'll take something before the TT, just like Landis last year. Also, he could fail a test during training, and that's how he'll get caught. They're all dirty.
Alan
I'm done - after following the Tour closely for 6 years, I have no more.
?[/quote]
You are not done following the tour. Like everyone else here, you are going to continue to follow it this year, next year and the year after that. And you will continue to whine about how dirty it all is and be "done with it" only to keep right on following and whining.
one more time wrote:
I'm done - after following the Tour closely for 6 years, I have no more.
?
You are not done following the tour. Like everyone else here, you are going to continue to follow it this year, next year and the year after that. And you will continue to whine about how dirty it all is and be "done with it" only to keep right on following and whining.[/quote]
Bingo!
I am sickened by the Vino news but I can't wait to watch tomorrow morning.
All except Lance, right?
This may be a good point. I really thought that Contador had truly broken away from Rasmussen at one point, but a motorbike and a support car got in the way, forcing Contador to slow down and allowing Rasmussen to catch up. This may have been at the very top of the climb -- but still, a break is a break, I thought it showed some weakness.
great post mate. Couldn't agree more!
I suppose that's one way of seeing it. Rasmussen said Contador deliberately used the motorcycles for his attacks, basically jumping into their slipstreams each time. I can't judge if he really got that advantage, but I definitely didn't see him being impeded.
Why are you people so fascinated by this Contador guy? Clearly he is second-best in this race. If he were as good as you say, he would have dropped Rasmussen. But he hasn't. He's got a kick, but he doesn't have the power to ride away.
the latest news just killed the whole thing for me. its such a wonderful sport and they are destroying it. i seriously don't care to watch anymore...
Some good points being made during more low times for the sport. I am disgusted by the Vinokourov positive (probably my favourite rider) but not too surprised. He rode for T-Mobile for many years (they're the dirtiest of the lot). I have read that Kloden was tested also after the time trial but did not test positive. Maybe systematic team doping is out and individual riders are making their own decisions on doping. I will still watch todays stage but I don't believe it will be as exciting without Astana. With Vino and Kaschekin working for Kloden, Andreas still had an outside chance (bearing in mind that he could take a few minutes back on the final time trial). Now it is just Discovery vs Rabbobank, with Evans as the wildcard.
I think it's got to the stage where they could just about allow drugs in the sport. We all pretty much believe that most riders are doping, so why not allow it? It's the contests in the mountains that interest us. I was pissed off when the top riders were thrown out before the start of last years tour (even though hindsight has shown this to be the morally correct decision). The tour was intriguing anyway, but it may have been an even better spectacle with Basso, Ullrich, Vinokourov and Mancebo.
In an honest world I would like to see the tour raced clean. Not going to happen. Perhaps, with everything out in the open, some deserving credit could go to the team doctors. The real heroes of the tour!
sidvicious wrote:
the latest news just killed the whole thing for me. its such a wonderful sport and they are destroying it. i seriously don't care to watch anymore...
You're implying you USED TO care to watch. So I gotta ask, Do you think the sport is getting dirtier or getting cleaner?
I think people are obsessed with Contador because he's 24. He going to win, just a matter of which year. "He's the next Indurain."
Rumor has it another rider has tested positive. This time for testosterone, the UCI is going to make some announcement regarding this later today. Only eight riders were tested that day, Rasmussen was one of them along with Hunter and six lessor named riders. The news just continues to get worse for cycling.