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10sleep
RE: Alan Webb is now the 25th fastest 1500 runner ever!!!! 7/7/2007 5:36AM - in reply to Jim Spivey Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Thanks, Jim. You raised the bar for other U.S. runners during your career and with your thoughtful posts you've done something similar for this board. (The second of those is not hard to do, of course.) Great to hear that you want to see Webb run faster and believe he has a lengthy future in the sport.
skagg
RE: Alan Webb is now the 25th fastest 1500 runner ever!!!! 7/7/2007 6:36AM - in reply to Coleman Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Coleman wrote:

Who is Sydney Maree????


Yippee! Most ignorant post today!
yesyes
RE: Alan Webb is now the 25th fastest 1500 runner ever!!!! 7/7/2007 6:36AM - in reply to Jim Spivey Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Jim Spivey wrote:

toro-
I think the exciting thing is his age - he has quite a few years left to better this time. Of course, when we everyone on this board who posts runs their PR, you always think that you can run faster, tomorrow.
js


Yep, that's one of the toughest things about this sport - You never think your last PR is going to be your last PR. A very few of us get lucky enough to pop a big one slightly past our prime, maybe at the end of a season, and kind of know that we might not get there again. But for far more of us, it happens at the peak of our career, which we know not to be a peak.

Some of the "saddest" examples are Virgin and Salazar - Who'd have thought they'd never get faster after PRs so young. And I don't mean that as a knock on them ... many of us cannot improve on times from our early-mid 20s because of health and other reasons.
skagg
RE: Alan Webb is now the 25th fastest 1500 runner ever!!!! 7/7/2007 6:37AM - in reply to wha Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

wha wrote:

was Fermin Cacho Algerian, Moroccan?


Another ignorant clown!
skagg
RE: Alan Webb is now the 25th fastest 1500 runner ever!!!! 7/7/2007 6:38AM - in reply to Dumb Troll Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Dumb Troll wrote:

Daniel Komen is on the list twice too.


Two different Komen, fool!
Ninetonite
RE: Alan Webb is now the 25th fastest 1500 runner ever!!!! 7/7/2007 7:32AM - in reply to skagg Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I'm a Canadian who started running in 1981 at age 16. My heros in that day were guys like Steve Scott, Salazar, yes Spivey and one of the most inspirational was Sydney Maree. Back then in the first Running Boom Americans could hold their own against the top running nations, and then some, and had depth in every event. Don't know what happened from the late 80s until early 2000s but it's great to see some Americans dominating events again. You Yanks have to be proud of guys like Webb and Meb and Hall etc., once again you have depth in events from 1,500 right to the marathon and medal hopefuls abound. This is like watching a second running boom for me.

Thanks for the posts Jim Spivey, it's great to read it from the horses mouth. Keep posting.
crazy streaker
RE: Alan Webb is now the 25th fastest 1500 runner ever!!!! 7/7/2007 7:54AM - in reply to Ninetonite Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I have really liked Webb since his Olympic Trials Win a few years ago. I have always noticed the ups and downs in his racing but recently he has been doing very well in the 1500-mile consistently. The 3000 at Pre was a fluke(and not a mile). He is showing a lot of improvement and with years ahead in his training, can I dare ask?WR? We are saying how 1:50-1:51 through the 800 could possibly lead to him running 3:28 so how about coming through at 1:49 in a few years when he is at his career peak? I know some people are going to call me an idiot but I think he has a chance, even if it is small.
jrun
RE: Alan Webb is now the 25th fastest 1500 runner ever!!!! 7/7/2007 8:20AM - in reply to skagg Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

skagg wrote:


Coleman wrote:

Who is Sydney Maree????


Yippee! Most ignorant post today!



Either be productive and answer the question or ignore the question that is so beneath you.

You do know that fresh-faced youngsters are logging on to this site everday developing a passion for the sport, right? So maybe they haven't attend track&field History 101 yet.

Be useful.
Jim Spivey
RE: Alan Webb is now the 25th fastest 1500 runner ever!!!! 7/7/2007 8:31AM - in reply to crazy streaker Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Stretching to go for a run myself, visiting my wife's parents in Indianapolis. Think I will throw in a surge about the 12 minute mark on the run!

What is difficult, for me, was to peak early in the season, and then try and hold that peak. In 1983, I ran 13:19 to finish 3rd in the Oslo 5k, won Stockholm 1500m, and then 2nd behind Steve Scott in the mile, PR 3:50.59 at age 23, first season out of college. Problem was the 1st World Champs in Helsinki were in August. I was able to win again in another race in Stockholm in late July, but did not make the 5k World champ final. John Walker had thought that after seeing me run 3:50, I could medal.

1985- won the US champs on a kick, but was flat by late July. 1986- ran 3:49.80 PR in Oslo around the 4th of July, yet 7th in Rome for the Grand Prix final. I stayed in Europe 78 days that summer, thinking that was the answer to run fast in September. To run 3:52 in September is not bad - but it was "hanging on" to run 3:52, to looking around and trying to win.

Changed coaches in 1987 to Mike and Ken. Won the US champs with a 53 last 400 in Sacremento. But knew based upon the training, that I had not peaked. Did not peak until late August. I remember running a 1000m in London against Cram and Pat Scammel, finishing 3rd, and having no leg speed towards the middle of August. Yet, winning the bronze medal at the Worlds in September, 4:52.44 for the 2000m (John Walker in the race :) ), and 2nd to Peter Elliott in the Westminister Mile.

Has AW been running 200's in 24 in practice over the last 3 weeks? Or, running 26.5-27.5? I used to think (1981-1986) that you had to run 24's in practice, or 51's for the 400, to be ready to race. Problem, the system you are working is lactic acid tolerance/speed, and your body then moves to peak. In 1992, I did not run a 200 under 26 until after the Olympic Trials on June 20th, and I think the date was in early July. And was I sore after this workout in London, which carried into the Nice 1500 where I was 5th in 3:33.

When I trained fast, I started my peak, and raced fast early in the season. When I trained for pace in a mile race (57 400 pace), I was able to race well early on, and most important to me, peak at the right time of the season. The concern is that you will not be as sharp to qualify, and like 1988, I did not make the team. 4th in the US champs in 1991, 3rd in 1993 US champs, etc.

How about it? 3rd in the US champs behind Bill Burke who won, and 5th at the World Championships in Stuttgart. I had to ask myself before the season started, what was my goal? Even when 1988, 4th in the trials and 3:31.01 on August 28th is in your mind, and the dissapointment of that season.

js
xc294
RE: Alan Webb is now the 25th fastest 1500 runner ever!!!! 7/7/2007 8:59AM - in reply to Jim Spivey Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Jim

I had the honour of spending some time with a coach in the UK, Tommy Boyle, who coached a Scottish athlete Tom McKean who ran 1.43 on numerous occasions and is probably remembered more for some big big wins on the Grand Prix circuit but not getting it done on the biggest stage. (although I'm sure every UK middle distance runner just now would kill for his acheivements)
Tom came to national notice at a time when Cram, Coe, Elliot and other Brits were still competing at the highest level in the world and making the UK team for a major championship was a major achievement in itself.
Tommy talked about how in some of the bigger years they would attempt a double peak with a mini-peak in June for the National Champs/Trials and also a main-peak for the major championships in August/September. He never went into specifics of what they did but I would have imagine it would have meant july off from racing to get back into training. Tommy talked about how financially this did not help but noted that later on in Tom's career when he was established enough and sometimes got to skip the trials he would make his money on the GP circuit then.
Long post I know - but did you ever experiment with a double peak? Is this something Webb can take advantage of next year. or can he just assume that even at 75% he's going to be good enough to make the US team?
buffet
RE: Alan Webb is now the 25th fastest 1500 runner ever!!!! 7/7/2007 9:16AM - in reply to Jim Spivey Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
JS,

Your thoughts are quite interesting. Thanks.

I remember following your progress some years back when you and my pal, Chris Fox, went at it. It seems as if you more often than not beat him to the line, leaving me disappointed but impressed with your ability.

I'm happy for AW, and excited for the sport. I love his emotion (I remember Jim Spivey being emotional too, which was exciting to watch) and I think it's an ingredient that is crucial to his success. World's are gonna be a lot of fun this year. Webb seems to be peaking at just the right time. Go Webb!
toro
RE: Alan Webb is now the 25th fastest 1500 runner ever!!!! 7/7/2007 9:40AM - in reply to Jim Spivey Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Jim,
I started following your running in '88 when I graduated high school.
I remember the disappointment of the 4th place Trials finish in '88 and the excitement of the '92 Trials victory.
I ran my PR of 3:42.1 on June 1, 1996 following you in a race at Northeastern where you ran 3:41.1 (Ronny Harris won in 3:40).
At the 800 mark (1:58) I was thinking "this is Jim Spivey right in front of me!" I was able to hang on and keep contact with you all the way to the finish. It got me the qualifyer for the Trials in Atlanta. I was originally inspired by watching you on TV, and then following you in a real live race.
Thanks

Todd Rosenberg
Jim Spivey
RE: Alan Webb is now the 25th fastest 1500 runner ever!!!! 7/7/2007 9:54AM - in reply to xc294 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Can you double peak?

For me, it is very difficult. I would say that in my career, I was unable to do this. I think what we should be looking at, is how long you can hold on to a peak. What is your experience?

6-8 weeks, with the 6 being more of the number is what I am thinking. It is so difficult to pull from the emotion side of the equation, to have the kick that destroys the field, and call on that again 2 months later.

I can say in 1984, at age 24, I was too dumb to know. Winning the Trials in June on a big kick, then the Games in early August (around the 10th?) - I think that I thought if I did not make the final, and run well in the final, people would say, "Oh, he shouldn't have made the team. He peaked too early." I type this with all sincerity. Those thoughts did go through my mind. I was going to make the final - period.

For McKean, he was an athlete who was on top of his game, but not at the Championships. What was his best finish at the Worlds or Games? I think a top 3 finish behind Coe at the European Cup may have been his top in 1986.

js
ornet
RE: Alan Webb is now the 25th fastest 1500 runner ever!!!! 7/7/2007 10:36AM - in reply to jrun Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

jrun wrote:


skagg wrote:


Coleman wrote:

Who is Sydney Maree????


Yippee! Most ignorant post today!



Either be productive and answer the question or ignore the question that is so beneath you.

You do know that fresh-faced youngsters are logging on to this site everday developing a passion for the sport, right? So maybe they haven't attend track&field History 101 yet.

Be useful.


Then it would be a lot easier to google the name instead of making fools of themselves.
turn right
RE: Alan Webb is now the 25th fastest 1500 runner ever!!!! 7/7/2007 10:45AM - in reply to goog Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

goog wrote:
This is insignificant. You are the fastest American or you are not. We should stop this native-born mentality, it puts an artificial limit on people's accomplishments. I'm sure that Alan does not think like this....


no it's not.

it's only as insignificant as being the national record holder. i mean, if you're not the world record holder, then does it matter? same reasoning. national record, national record for natives, etc...just categories we like to keep track of.


lagat and (african) friends are american and i'm all for them coming here as long as it isn't just for running purposes, having equal rights, and being able to compete for the U.S.

however, american records should be for american-born runners.
Phil.
RE: Alan Webb is now the 25th fastest 1500 runner ever!!!! 7/7/2007 10:56AM - in reply to ornet Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

ornet wrote:


jrun wrote:


skagg wrote:


Coleman wrote:

Who is Sydney Maree????


Yippee! Most ignorant post today!



Either be productive and answer the question or ignore the question that is so beneath you.

You do know that fresh-faced youngsters are logging on to this site everday developing a passion for the sport, right? So maybe they haven't attend track&field History 101 yet.

Be useful.


Then it would be a lot easier to google the name instead of making fools of themselves.


Although Sydney was only a temporary US citizen having since reverted to South African citizenship.
noozer
RE: Alan Webb is now the 25th fastest 1500 runner ever!!!! 7/7/2007 11:24AM - in reply to Tony Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Tony wrote:


BubbaGump wrote:
Just think, if he takes 2 seconds off his time, he's top 5 All-Time.


That's a TOUGH 2 seconds, though.


if it was that easy the world record would be 3.24.
Dick face
popcorn
RE: Alan Webb is now the 25th fastest 1500 runner ever!!!! 7/7/2007 11:25AM - in reply to clock keeper Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

clock keeper wrote:


Tony wrote:


BubbaGump wrote:
Just think, if he takes 2 seconds off his time, he's top 5 All-Time.


That's a TOUGH 2 seconds, though.


a thousand one, a thousand two...


if it was that easy the world record would be 3.24.
Dick face
goog
RE: Alan Webb is now the 25th fastest 1500 runner ever!!!! 7/7/2007 11:26AM - in reply to turn right Reply | Return to Index | Report Post


however, american records should be for american-born runners.


Well, that is interesting. What qualifies us as American. For Meb, he immigrated from Eritrea, when he was 9 or 10 through Italy for his family to escape political oppression in Eritrea. He holds the American Record for the 10,000 Meters at 27:13.

I guess despite him having lived in this country for almost all of his life and living the "American Dream", he is not american in your book.

Even Lagat, he came to this country to improve his life. Let's not forget that Lagat has spent nearly half his life in this country since going to Washington State on an athletic scholarship, again the American dream.

If Craig Mottram had immigrated to this country at a young age and owned the American record for the 5000M at 12:55, I don't think that we would quibble as to if his record was really American.

The truth is many people see the African-born runner as different, as saying that they are genetically in some way superior to be able to run fast and thus if they come to our country, they don't really count in our records...

The reason an American-born designation is disrespectful to Alan Webb is simply because you are painting his accomplishment with this ideology that he can not compete against the American Record Holder, so we will give him a special designation as best American-born runner. If you want to give Webb the American record with an asterisk, then go ahead. The asterisks should stand for "Racist Inferiority Complex"

It is kind of like your team never winning the Super Bowl and then just saying f*** it, we will just call the Division Championships the Super Bowl and declare ourselves World Champions.

Alan Webb beat the best in the world in a great race and ran 3:30.54. The American Record Holder is Bernard Lagat at 3:29.30 that Alan beat by nearly 5 secs in this race. Alan has a chance not only to get a real american record, but also maybe a world record (for you I guess that would mean just the best time for someone of non-african descent)
illinoisrunner
RE: Alan Webb is now the 25th fastest 1500 runner ever!!!! 7/7/2007 11:38AM - in reply to Jim Spivey Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Mr. Spivey

Been trying to get in touch. Would appreciate your email so I can ask your advice on some things(in private). We actually go back some 17 years or so.
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