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jj
Running training for 10/11 year olds 1/30/2007 11:07AM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Anyone got any good suggestions for fun running training sessions for 11 year old boys+girls (about 30 in each group inside a sportshall). Aim is to help them train ready for a 2km running race.
ca boy
RE: Running training for 10/11 year olds 1/30/2007 11:14AM - in reply to jj Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
5 miles in the a.m.
10 miles in the p.m.

Do that seven days a week, what could be more fun?
Southern Man
RE: Running training for 10/11 year olds 1/30/2007 11:19AM - in reply to jj Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Playing games is a great fartlek training session for kids. Various tag games, ultimate frisbee, capture the flag are all fun ways for a group of kids to get in a good workout. Kids also love all kinds of relay races. Steady running is also good a couple times a week and the kids will enjoy it if they take it at a moderate pace and run in groups and get lots of encouragement.
yep.....
RE: Running training for 10/11 year olds 1/30/2007 11:22AM - in reply to jj Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Short rest track repeats with ankle weights.
mommy mommy
RE: Running training for 10/11 year olds 1/30/2007 12:36PM - in reply to jj Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Our elementary school has a mileage club that goes during the recess period, which is for fitness and not necessarily training for anything, but here are some of the things we've done past few years.

Mostly, the kids do laps, but we spice it up with relays - which they do love - and obstacle courses, which they love even more. Variations on tag and dodgeball where they are moving all the time, and anything they can get timed and help time other people are always popular, too. Just avoid things that they have to take individual turns because they end up standing around and getting bored.
jokedawg
RE: Running training for 10/11 year olds 1/30/2007 12:41PM - in reply to jj Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
here's an idea:

recreational soccer & active lifestyle from an early age...

track in middle school with no real training (maybe 1-2 miles a week maximum) continue soccer

Start serious, regimented training in 9th grade or age 14.

If you try to run competitively at age 11 you will burn out half way through high school (if you're lucky)
daddy daddy
RE: Running training for 10/11 year olds 1/30/2007 12:46PM - in reply to jokedawg Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

jokedawg wrote:

If you try to run competitively at age 11 you will burn out half way through high school (if you're lucky)


I'm glad Mary Decker didn't listen to you.

I love how people make up all these "rules" for other people.

If you want to place limits on yourself fine, but why limit the potential of others?
take it easy
RE: Running training for 10/11 year olds 1/30/2007 1:09PM - in reply to daddy daddy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

daddy daddy wrote:


jokedawg wrote:

If you try to run competitively at age 11 you will burn out half way through high school (if you're lucky)


I'm glad Mary Decker didn't listen to you.

I love how people make up all these "rules" for other people.

If you want to place limits on yourself fine, but why limit the potential of others?


Because that's what responsible parents do, set reasonable limits on young children who don't know any better. Too much emphasis on any one sport before a certain age is unhealthy. My opinion would be at least 12.
otter
RE: Running training for 10/11 year olds 1/30/2007 1:10PM - in reply to daddy daddy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

daddy daddy wrote:


jokedawg wrote:

If you try to run competitively at age 11 you will burn out half way through high school (if you're lucky)


I'm glad Mary Decker didn't listen to you.

I love how people make up all these "rules" for other people.

If you want to place limits on yourself fine, but why limit the potential of others?


Everyone else got it except for you. Running at that age should be fun. Who did Mary Decker Slaney listen to in the end? A very poor example.
Children can run almost forever aerobically but their nervous systems are not developed enough for interval training. Why do the Africans run so well? Because from an early age they are running aerobically either from playing or running to and from school. They are building an aerobic base without even knowing it.
Throw an 11 year old kid into running competitively may not burn them out but it will certainly limit their potential.
futurestar
RE: Running training for 10/11 year olds 1/30/2007 1:18PM - in reply to jj Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
A great "base" training for kids is doing stairs. It's more fun for kids at a young age and helps get them fit. It can substitute for taking them out for a run.
daddy daddy
RE: Running training for 10/11 year olds 1/30/2007 1:57PM - in reply to otter Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

otter wrote:
Running at that age should be fun. Children can run almost forever aerobically but their nervous systems are not developed enough for interval training. Why do the Africans run so well? Because from an early age they are running aerobically either from playing or running to and from school. They are building an aerobic base without even knowing it.
Throw an 11 year old kid into running competitively may not burn them out but it will certainly limit their potential.


We all agree that running should be fun. Especially for kids. Why do you assume that if they want to run, structured program that makes sure they don't do too much and does the right things won't be fun. Kids like structure, they find it comforting, ask any childrens pyschologist. You say the African children build an aerobic base without knowing it, so what is wrong with knowing it? Wouldn't the result be the same?

Some kids are fascinated by baseball, video games, or chess, so why not running? And who is talking about "throwing" kids into races? If a kids shows a sincere contiued interest in running and racing isn't a structured program the best way to ensure they do the right things and don't do too much. Why be so negative. Having kids who run is much better than having them sit around eat junk food and play video games all day.
Coach D
RE: Running training for 10/11 year olds 1/30/2007 1:59PM - in reply to daddy daddy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

daddy daddy wrote:

I'm glad Mary Decker didn't listen to you.


USATF.com has the youth track records on their site. Will you find Mary Decker in there? Nope. You will also NOT find Carl Lewis, Maurice Greene, Alysson Felix, Jim Ryun, Alan Webb, or Deena Drossin. You WILL find Jordan Hasay (jury's still out on her), and Suzy Favor and Ceci Hopp, but only after age 15 for the latter two. You will, unfortunately, find a lot of Obea Moores, which should say a lot about what you DON'T want to do if you think you have a Mary Decker or Suzy Favor.

My youngest son, who's 11, runs a timed mile in PE once every week. The rest of the time they do fun stuff like ultimate frisbee. His mile time is ahead of his 14-year-old brother at the same grade, and the 14-year-old was the second fastest in his middle school, and is now doing 100/200 on the track team in high school as a freshman. Why can't you just do something like this.

Runners World has a good site (maybe the only thing they have that's worth a damn) called kidsrunning.com, which has a lot of advice from teachers and real coaches.
AK-47
RE: Running training for 10/11 year olds 1/30/2007 2:04PM - in reply to jj Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I've coached elementary school kids for the past few years for cross country, and here are some things that we have done. The season is very short, just 3-4 weeks (but the 6th graders have an option to extend it a week). The kids really like trail runs. If you have 60 kids total you might need at least 6-8 parent volunteers. Run a half mile or mile warm-up on the first or second practice and then split them into groups based on how they finish (most will kind of select themselves based on their peers). Then you can have the parents work with managable sized group of 6-10.

2X/week an easy trail runs of 10-30 or 40 min. Most will need some walk breaks.

Finish as a large group with games that emphasize speed--sharks and minnows, tag, soccer, relays, ultimate frisbee. They love this too. Our workouts were always about an hour total from when they arrived until they left, and at most they'd be running no more than 30-45 minutes total.

Kids at that age don't like interval training, and it's probably not good for their developing hearts.

Spend a little time each day with tips on training, stretching, hydration, proper shoes and attire, and etiquitte.

Make the races seem like an exciting adventure--not a big competitive deal. Encourage them all, and then encourage them again.
daddy daddy
RE: Running training for 10/11 year olds 1/30/2007 2:11PM - in reply to Coach D Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Coach D wrote:

My youngest son, who's 11, runs a timed mile in PE once every week. The rest of the time they do fun stuff like ultimate frisbee. His mile time is ahead of his 14-year-old brother at the same grade, and the 14-year-old was the second fastest in his middle school, and is now doing 100/200 on the track team in high school as a freshman. Why can't you just do something like this.

Runners World has a good site (maybe the only thing they have that's worth a damn) called kidsrunning.com, which has a lot of advice from teachers and real coaches.



Coach D, amazing to me that if you're a real coach you would think random is better than structured. I guess if your 11 year old wants to go running with you a few days a week you'd say "No, go play a video game and eat a twinkie, you know you can do a real run until your at least 14." Nice, very nice.

I'm not say making anyone run, but if THEY WANT TO then teach them the proper way, don't deny them the opportunity because some website tells you so.
daddy daddy
RE: Running training for 10/11 year olds 1/30/2007 2:23PM - in reply to AK-47 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

AK-47 wrote:

I've coached elementary school kids for the past few years for cross country, and here are some things that we have done. The season is very short, just 3-4 weeks (but the 6th graders have an option to extend it a week). The kids really like trail runs. If you have 60 kids total you might need at least 6-8 parent volunteers. Run a half mile or mile warm-up on the first or second practice and then split them into groups based on how they finish (most will kind of select themselves based on their peers). Then you can have the parents work with managable sized group of 6-10.

2X/week an easy trail runs of 10-30 or 40 min. Most will need some walk breaks.

Finish as a large group with games that emphasize speed--sharks and minnows, tag, soccer, relays, ultimate frisbee. They love this too. Our workouts were always about an hour total from when they arrived until they left, and at most they'd be running no more than 30-45 minutes total.

Kids at that age don't like interval training, and it's probably not good for their developing hearts.

Spend a little time each day with tips on training, stretching, hydration, proper shoes and attire, and etiquitte.

Make the races seem like an exciting adventure--not a big competitive deal. Encourage them all, and then encourage them again.



I agree with almost everyting you've said and congratulate you and thank you for taking the time to work with and give kids a good intro into the sport.

I do have one one thing that strikes me as odd.

You recommend "games that emphasize speed--sharks and minnows, tag, soccer, relays, ultimate frisbee"

but then say :

Kids at that age don't like interval training, and it's probably not good for their developing hearts.

This doesn't make sense. Those games are loosely structured intervals but the strain on the heart is greater as they involve repeated all out sprints. Appropriate speed work for young runners is structured fartlek or light interval work were the speed and effort is closely monitored to make sure they aren't over doing it. With larger groups like yours have them split into groups of 7 to 10 and jog in a single file line slowly around a course, the person at the back moderately surges around the rest into the lead. Once he/she is in the lead the new last person does the same. Repeat. Most kids (even high schoolers) like that one.
otter
RE: Running training for 10/11 year olds 1/30/2007 2:30PM - in reply to daddy daddy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I think it is funny how you started on this thread by using a known drug cheat as a positive example. In light of that I will address your most recent toned down post. It's as if you got an education between your two posts because your opinion now is not consistent with what you had said before.
I have seen a lot of youth programs, some in my area that drive the children hard with intervals (which is bad for them), and have a high emphasis on competition.
There is a track series over the Summer in my area that is non competitive. The kids love it. Every meet has over 200 kids. The only people who want to see it turn into a series that promotes a competitive atmosphere are some of the parents (a very small minority). The kids just want to get out there, see their friends, run and see themselves in the paper.
I can never advocate for trying to get an eleven year old to try to reach their potential at that age. If that is what you refer to as negativity so be it.
AK-47
RE: Running training for 10/11 year olds 1/30/2007 3:10PM - in reply to daddy daddy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The first year I tried a few things resembling intervals (2 X 800) and some 200 m surges, and they got bored pretty quick. As per the health issue, I attended a clinic by a fairly well respected biathlon coach last summer and he was pretty strongly against high intensity (traditional interval, where heart rates repeatedly max out at 200-220) training for kids up to about 13-14 years old. For example, he thought that 6 - 12 repeat hills or 200s at 40 seconds were not a good idea, but a couple longer reps at a lower intensity would be fine (say 2 X 3 min at a race pace effort).

The games are kind of a natural interval or fartlek workout, but the sustained intensity isn't there. It's more like short bursts of 5-15 seconds interspersed with slower activity and some resting.

Hopefully this clarifies my earlier comments.
daddy daddy
RE: Running training for 10/11 year olds 1/30/2007 3:11PM - in reply to otter Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Having been down that road as a kid myslef, I agree the the age group only comeptitive races at a very young age aren't a very good thing. can be too much pressure the kids put on themselves and some parents put on them as well.

I have found that local 5k's are good place for kids to start there competitive running. In any 5k there will always be tons of people faster than them and tons slower and its rare that they run into another kid their age and sex. They can learn about running in a race without the pressure. all the better if they can do it with a parent. But only if they want to. It should be their idea. My son and daughter have eached run in local 5k's but only after they repeately asked to.
daddy daddy
RE: Running training for 10/11 year olds 1/30/2007 3:26PM - in reply to AK-47 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
AK,

Thanks for the clarification, we are in agreement. Prolonged maxing out of HR is not good for kids. Totally agree. I'd only recommend moderate paced intervals, not the full lactic acid ones that made us all puke in high school.

You also might want to try pacing games. Divide into groups of similar ability and pick an easily achievable time for that group over a (say 400 meter loop) and have the kids compete to see who can hit closest to that goal time. It will develop their sense of pace and competitiveness without having them race outright. My experience is that kids love it and have fun. Everyone has a fair chance, all ages as well. Sometimes the slowest kid has the best sense of pace.

Thanks again for your work with kids.
take it easy
RE: Running training for 10/11 year olds 1/30/2007 3:42PM - in reply to daddy daddy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

daddy daddy wrote:

Having been down that road as a kid myslef, I agree the the age group only comeptitive races at a very young age aren't a very good thing. can be too much pressure the kids put on themselves and some parents put on them as well.

I have found that local 5k's are good place for kids to start there competitive running. In any 5k there will always be tons of people faster than them and tons slower and its rare that they run into another kid their age and sex. They can learn about running in a race without the pressure. all the better if they can do it with a parent. But only if they want to. It should be their idea. My son and daughter have eached run in local 5k's but only after they repeately asked to.


I agree, my kids have been driving me crazy to run with them and bring them to the track.They are 10 and I let them run two miles with me after I finish my workout. Every once in a while we go to the track and they run a fast mile. It is totally their idea and I am thrilled that they want to run, especially since they do so many other sports. They even run on their own after school a lot of days. It is hard to be patient, but that is part of being a responsible parent. There will be plenty of time to explore their potential.
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