Boulder XC Frozen Tundra Nationals!

It doesn't matter that they can't train on "the course" right now, all the snow piled up (with more coming Thurs and Fri) means that nobody can get onto ANY grassy surface in the vicinity, it's all snowed under. Unless Wetmore is out there shoveling off Kittredge a la the photo in T&FN a few years ago of him taking a shovel to lane one of the track at Potts Field.

The USATF XC Champs are going to favor runners who run and train at altitude. I don't know about all the posts about snowdrift being a great equalizer. If anything this is going to reduce everyones economy and require more VO2 to run (more advantage to altitude runners). The runners who will probably do well here are the ones that live in flagstaff (wejo), bend, provo, alamosa, albuturkey, durango. mammoth, big bear, sante fe and anyone with an altitude house/tent (alberto's group).

The underlying problem with Boulder is the altitude (5400 ft enironment) and runners from sea level. The runners on teams from sea level (like Hansons, Team USA Minnestoa, and American Distance Project) are at a big disadvantage. Everyone knows this.......even NCAA qualifying for xc lumps all the altitude teams together for regionals.

Don't get me wrong, altitude qualifying venues are great when the competition is going be at altitude (like Mexico City) but doesn't make much sense for a sea level worlds xc.

A second point which people are focused on is the weather. Having a qualifying race that will be held in temps below 40 will probably not select the runners who are "good" heat runners. One poster mention the NCAA experience but I think the heat index differences between Boulder and Mombassa is way worse. The distance events (5km and 10km) at Sacramento were held in the night (50-70 degrees + 20% humidty) but Mombassa temps are going to be in the mid 80's with at least 80% humidty for a 12 km event!!! I think it is about the greatest divergence in heat index runners will face from one race to another.

Also the likely athletes who qualify will have to undergo ~2 weeks of acclimatization prior to leaving for the world champs. I don't know how much USATF is giving athletes to do this? I know they did a heat camp for 2004 olympics.

It seems that USATF could have planned this one a little better.

For more info on heat acclimization that is written for coaches & athletes see.....

http://www.gssiweb.com/Article_Detail.aspx?articleid=38&level=2&topic=16

BTW, Gators are dominating OSU at halftime (34 to 14). I hope they keep this up! Go Gators!

Yeah, well the best team will be made up of runners who train at altitude and they'll also be runners who can adapt easily between cold, dry weather and hot, humid weather and no silly facts or hard data will convince me otherwise. So there!

Oh yeah, and if you disagree with me you've got no testes.

Webb, Lincoln & Teg don't train at altitude, but I'll venture to say that they will make the team if the try for it. The people that are meant to be on the team, will make it.

Of course they will..you just named one of fastest US 10km runners, the US record holder for the steeple and one of fastest US 5km runners...they will probably make the team but I doubt they would win..the altitude will still hurt them.

But what is unfair about these xc champs is the ~29 min up and coming post collegiate runner who resides at sea level. They won't have a chance............

P.S. I know Webb, Lincoln and Teg reside at sea level but do any of them use altitude simualtion systems?

runfree wrote:

But what is unfair about these xc champs is the ~29 min up and coming post collegiate runner who resides at sea level. They won't have a chance............

not with that attitude, they won't. people really build up the effect of altitude on here. it will certainly have an effect but it's pretty overstated, especially if one gets to boulder a few days in advance. no one is going to be losing minutes because of it or something - though i'm sure there will be plenty coming on here and blaming it for x's or y's performance.

chuck d wrote:

not with that attitude, they won't. people really build up the effect of altitude on here. it will certainly have an effect but it's pretty overstated, especially if one gets to boulder a few days in advance. no one is going to be losing minutes because of it or something - though i'm sure there will be plenty coming on here and blaming it for x's or y's performance.

dude you either have never run at altitude or have always lived at altitude and dont know its effects on a sea level guy...altitude will be the dominant factor in the race (try living at sea level, traveling up to boulder and trying to race an all out 12k after a day or 2...i can guarantee youll feel like your chest is about to explode 3 miles in)

if more than one guy who is not altitude trained makes this team i will be very surprised...which is a shame because this race is shaping up to be something really special what with it being the first year without a 4k but USATF had to throw in such an unfair element...

fortunately well still have a good team as many of our top guys are used to altitude (Ritz, Hall, Torres, Gouch) but it still will present an extreme disadvantage to those without the luxury...

What will be interesting is how well the team will do at Worlds. Do you think the team will improve upon its best placing?

runfree wrote:

But what is unfair about these xc champs is the ~29 min up and coming post collegiate runner who resides at sea level. They won't have a chance............

chuck d wrote:

not with that attitude, they won't.

Huh? What attitude are you talking about?

How many others would have a chance even at sea level though? Really? Here's another non-altitude trained guy that would still make it... Fam. There's only one race this year. It's going to be competitive & out of all those groups you described earlier, I can't think of a single guy that would make the team in any condition.

Not that I know of.

I know what you saying but there is always a dark horse ( a postcollegiate 29 min 10m runner) that shines at xc champs. The champs being at altitude just make it harder for these guys who don't have shoe contract and can't move out west to train in mountains.

Bob Kennedy rarely trained at altitude and he had seemed to have an ok time making world cross teams!

Man your are right on...sea level runners always finish near the top at the Buffalo Invite and Boulder to Boulder 10km.

Dude, since the effects of altitude are overstated for sea level distance runners, lets have Boulder hosts the NCAAs, USATF Nationals, and Olympic trials. However, I favor returing to Echo Summit that is where real runners race...Boulder is way too low.

Forget sea level runners who "whine and blame" because they will lose 40-50 secs in a 12 km race they have small balls anyway....

wejo are we going to have a pick a winner contest for Boulder XC Frozen Tundra Nationals? Predict the first 9 finishers. I think first prize should be a lets run puma singlet...........

http://www.mensracing.com/photos/usatfout01/us16.jpg

chuck d wrote:

not with that attitude, they won't. people really build up the effect of altitude on here. it will certainly have an effect but it's pretty overstated, especially if one gets to boulder a few days in advance. no one is going to be losing minutes because of it or something - though i'm sure there will be plenty coming on here and blaming it for x's or y's performance.

Altitude is a pretty huge factor. Especially when someone throws in a surge and you briefly go into the red. It's basically impossible for a non-altitude trained athlete to "recover" from a surge in an altitude race. If the altitude athletes were smart, they would throw down early and often to get rid of the sea level guys.

How long does it take an athlete to acclimate? If an athlete came to Boulder tomorrow and trained here for a month, would they be fully acclimated and unaffected by the altitude on race day? Would it take more time, or less?