mountain running a joke?

I see it differently. Okay, so mountain racing doesn't involve the top elites. But it's still a great part of the sport and more than just competition place/time. For the right type of runner, the competition and even more so, the training, is probably super rewarding to these guys. I'd do it right now in a heartbeat, but have always had difficulty bumping up to high mileage. I'd love to do what these guys can.... at least say in the fall season.

jury still out.

The race was an uphill only race of 800m climb across 11.5km. The photos suggested it was a road race up a big hill. Men's world champs uphill (every second year) was 1275m climb so this was much less testing. However I would say the Africans could dominate if they put their minds to it (and if there were more decent prizes)

I've never really liked uphill only racing. The up and downhill races on trails and open mountains are what a lot of people consider to be "real" mountain running. It requires much more technique and is a much less one-dimensional event in terms of athletic ability and tactics. I'm not sure if Africans would dominate this. Having extremely long legs in proportion to the rest of your body and having a long flowing stride may not be advantageous.

To be succesful as an up and down runner you need to have a low centre of gravity, be very light, be below average height, have short stumpy legs, have a short chopping stride for ascending along with an excellent downhill technique. I'm not saying there are no Africans who fit the bill just that they wouldn't dominate the way they dominate track.

Hmm. Thanks!

Very interesting thoughts on the mixed vs. uphill-only topic...

This is not a true mountain race, if it was Jono Wyatt would have dominated. I would like to see how these Africans would go in a race like the world champs the Eritrean have tried and have been beaten.

And even the World Mountain Running Champs are considered by many fell runners to be a bit tame. It would take any elite African a couple of years to become good at an Up and Down Mountain race, but it would be near impossible for them take on something like the Sky Runner Series.

Infact to call this race a Mountain race is a bit unjust. It is meant to attract Africans to compete. It is basically a road race up a Mountain. The Gradient is not that steep and I would expect a good African to dominate. Pity they didn't know about it last year when a very mediocre runner took home 50k!!.

I smoked two Kenyans at Mt. Washington who would beat me by about 2 minutes over 10k in a flat race. All uphill is one thing, the "real" up and down mountain running is even more dramatically different.

All of this said, if all of the best runners were mountain racing, some of them would turn out to be the best mountain runners too.

It is, no doubt, different.

If you don't believe this, I'd suggest you go give it a shot next summer. Then report back, please.

Look at the credentials of the non-mountain running top-10 competitors. These are not just "good" runners who have stepped into to compete against a couple of the best mountain runners.

Frankly, I am surprised that they were only able to pull away in the final 1-2km. It is not a difficult mountain course, basically a uphill road race. Like Mt. Washington, but with good weather and less grade.

It is a hill race not a mountain race. A real mountain race involves much steeper grades on rough trails.

are you joking why would africans not be able to run well in these mountain races? Are Kenya & Ethiopia not mountainous? Oh wait they are very mountainous. Its great these men and women have there little sport and I am all for competition of about anykind. But dont try to say the best/fastest endurance runners in the world could not beat them at it. First off the population that even knows about these races let alone does them is very small so these races do not begin to draw elite athletes. Thus do not claim that africans or any other actual elite runner could not do well in one of your mountain races.

That race was a road race up a mountain, not a mountain race. I had my first experience at true mountain running this summer at races going up ski mountains on horse trails and single track. In my first race i had to "hike" 4 or 5 times. I know for a fact some of the runners never stopped to walk. Now i won the race but this was a smaller race. I know one of the better runners in the town beat out a couple D1 kids in one of the bigger races. Mountain racing is all about pacing and balance, less about speed. The top mountain guys though can get going pretty well on the flats i must say.

Mountain Running is one of the toughest forms of the sport. I think that the top Africans could good at the sport but they will never be attracted to it because there is not the same money in it as road and track racing. The top African runners follow the money simple as that. Even the Africans that compete in the Mountain races in Europe are the 2nd or 3rd string runners.

Plus keep in mind that 2 mountain runner types placed 2nd and 5th I believe against some pretty tough (2:08 to 2:10 marathon) runners. So they didn't exactly get destroyed, and as has been mentioned several times already, this wasn't really a proper mountain race.

There are clearly some people who are better suited to certain types of "extreme" running. I observed it first-hand in high school. I was mediocre at XC (17:52 PR) and was usually #7 man on the team. Our top 3 were what I considered very good at the time (#1 ran 15:49 on legit course) so naturally I was never anywhere near them in workouts. Never. But then one day coach had us do stadium steps for about 20 or 30 minutes, and I not only was ahead of the top runner, but I wasn't even trying that hard. The next day I was right back to my usual place in the pack and thought maybe it was just some weird fluke, until a couple of weeks later we went back and did the same workout, and the exact same thing happened.

One odd thing to mention is that I was never particularly good on regular hilly courses. I would just hold my place most of the time on the uphills. Even when the team did regular hill repeats on the roads I finished in my usual place. But later in life I had the opportunity to run some hill climb races at ski resorts and such, plus Pike's Peak a couple of times, and I did find that when the hills got really long and steep, I could beat people who were generally quite a bit faster. Maybe it has something to do with physique--I'm very bottom-heavy, with disproportionately large quad muscles.

A Kenyan training in Albuquerque ran the Imogene Pass Run in Ouray, CO one year, 5,000 ft of climing in 10 miles, then 4000ft down in 7 miles. The guy took off like a crazy man and it looked like Matt Carpenter's record was going to be destroyed. By 8 miles, fat old men were passing him.

mopak wrote:

It is a hill race not a mountain race. A real mountain race involves much steeper grades on rough trails.

Why does a mountain race need "rough trails"?

If it goes up a steep grade but on a road(Mt washington) then it is a mountain race.

Africans would absolutely dominate mountain running. Period.

Word.

Is mountain running a joke?

As i tell any good runner that asks or inquires about mountain running....come find out for yourself and run a mountain race.

Two things will happen.

1) the runner sucks at mountain running and goes back to the roads or track with some respect for mountain running.

or even better

2) they run well and have a chance of making and helping the TEVA USA Mountain Running Team at the world championships.

I have encouraged sub 29 10k runners to actually run mountian races. sometimes it works and sometimes it does not but they do find out if it is a joke or not.

Why the trails? wrote:

Why does a mountain race need "rough trails"?

If it goes up a steep grade but on a road(Mt washington) then it is a mountain race.

When I think of mountain runs, I think of what the UK folks call fell runnning... where the rough terrain features are part of the fun and challenge. The Mt. Washington race is call a "Mt. Washington ROAD RACE" for a reason.

Photo of a real mountain run: