THOUGHTLESS FASCISM IN NY CITY! A question for those over the age of 25

I work in a high school that, like most other schools, has a cell phone problem. Kids think they have the right to message in class and bitch and moan if their phone is taken. I had a kid start playing rap music from her mp3 equipped phone and she bitched and moaned when I took it up.

This is why public schools are a bad idea. The government can't do the things it needs to do to be effective. A student should not be allowed to have a phone on their person during school hours. A teacher should have the authority to take up any phone that is used or seen in class for at least a week. Of course this doesn't work well in government schools because parents and kids bitch and moan about rights. In a private system they would have to sign a contract and they couldn't complain.

Cell phones in schools are bad. I'd say that tens of thousands of hours are spent in the US every year dealing with cell phones in classrooms.

So if you didn't have public schools, what are you going to do with the kids that don't sign a contract or whose parents won't support you?

Whine all you want about "government schools", but it seems that you're happy to draw a salary from one of them.

I'll either move to another school district or go to a private school. I'm in a supposedly good district and it's pretty awful. I don't draw my salary from "public schools", I draw it from taxpayers.

I think the responsibility for a child's education rests on the parents, not the government. There are some good public schools, but by and large public education (like nearly everything the government runs) is inferior to what the private sector offers.

You are so wrong I took my kids out of private school to go to public schools and their education improved. If there is a bad thing to say about public schools is that they take too long to adapt to changes.

Yeah, I'm wrong because in your one case it was different. Give me a break.

Private schools do more with less. There is so much waste in the public schools its sickening.

apples wrote:

I have never understood where the authority come from that allows the school to take the phone in the first place or make a rule that prohibits possession of a phone. My kid lost her phone to the school ( a CA school) and they refuse to return it to me, her father. I have to continue to pay for the service even though she does not have the phone any more. (well almost she bought a new one but it took a few months.)

The authority comes from the fact that your daughter was screwing with the other kid's ability to learn.

If you cannot see why it would be necessary for a teacher to be able to confiscate a cell phone from a student, you are seriously out of touch.

I agree the school should return the phone to you and inform you that she is no longer able to have it in school.

I think don't ask-don't tell is a good policy for this, and if the child gets in trouble for some reason and is found with a phone, goodbye phone. If it rings in class, goodbye phone. If they use it in class, goodbye phone.

I have to say that I was a product of both public and private school, and my experience in private school was VASTLY superior. Not even close. I would imagine that your experience, apples, was in the minority.

No - you are not wrong, just blind. You ignore the fact that you are the exception. I live in the SF Bay area and, execpt for a few really good (and I mean really really good) public school systems, no parent who both loved their child and could afford an alternative would ever subject their kid to public schools. In SF so much tax payer money (and that is a huge nut) is used for this f'n social program and that that f'n social program, NOTHING is left to better our kids.....public schools are barely a step above a mind-numbing prison. Good for you that your switch from private to public worked out well....that means you started off with a bad private school in a district with a rare good program. But that has little to say about this topic. Simple fact - your kids are being placed in the hands of teachers who need to teach a GROUP (not just your little jewel). To control a group of young people who have their own minds, intentions and interests demands that the teacher and school can impose certain regulations and guidelines (even if you don't feel "it isn't fair" sniff sniff). You don't like that teachers and schools need to impose such rules? 2 words buddy: home school.

Let's follow Mountain Dew's suggestion and abandon ALL public education. I'm sure that the private schools will be able to deal with situations like my at-risk class where half of the kids have criminal records. We'll give vouchers for kids like this to go to your blessed little sanctuaries, and they are not allowed to kick them out, after all, we wouldn't want any child to get left behind, wouldn't we?

I teach in a city where the two systems actually get along quite well. And there are catholic school students who come to our god-forsaken public high school to take AP classes which their bastion of academic excellence doesn't offer.

Bottom line is, we're all trying to help kids. Yes, there's much that could be better about public schools, but this has largely come about because we HAVE to serve everyone, and can't turn away society's bad apples. And if all that pompous fools like "I teach good they learn bad" Mountain Dew can do is throw stones, they're part of the problem, not part of the solution and should get out.

What I was trying to say, but written in a much more articulate manner.

Not everyone is trying to help kids. Teachers unions, for one, are not.

"I teach good they learn bad" is not my motto. I'm not part of the problem, I'm out here being cussed at in every single class. The problem is a system with little oversight, zero choice and bureaucrats that think they know what students need better than the free market.

People like me, that want to teach and know their content, get too frustrated with the bullshit in public education. If you think I'm part of the problem you're living in la-la land.

"Yeah, those teachers that try their best and want reform are the biggest problem in education today". Give me a break,

Honestly, that is one thing I like about private schools. For the most part, they ARE allowed to kick out those who are not there for an education or feel that their only purpose is to interfere with other students' education (I am sure some of the ACLU faithful out there will differ, but F them anyway).

Re-read the threads - no one is saying that public school teachers are not trying to help children. But in many areas, these people are stuck in a system, that by its very nature interferes with that ability.

I am sure you will tell me that I am wrong, but I am going to venture a guess that the % of private school students who take the public school AP programs overall do much better (there and in later education) then the % of the general public school students. The simple fact that these students are seeking out an AP program shows that they want to learn, want to advance and want someone to teach them....they find that a bit more important than the Constitutional right to use a Razor to text message their friend about the latest rap video during math class.

NewUltrarunner wrote:

I am sure you will tell me that I am wrong, but I am going to venture a guess that the % of private school students who take the public school AP programs overall do much better (there and in later education) then the % of the general public school students. The simple fact that these students are seeking out an AP program shows that they want to learn, want to advance and want someone to teach them....they find that a bit more important than the Constitutional right to use a Razor to text message their friend about the latest rap video during math class.

There you go with your stereotyping again. What about the PUBLIC school students are electing to take an AP course to try to make the most of their opportunities?

I teach an AP Statistics class. I've had a handful of students who come from the private school to take this class, more would like to but can't work it into their schedule. And the public school students do much better. Not in my class, grading wise there isn't much different. But for whatever reason the private school scores on the AP exam (which I'm not even allowed to look at, let alone grade) haven't been anywhere near as good as the others.

And it's not like my class is an elite class. 30-40% of my AP students are C students from Algebra II who take statistics because it better suits their educational goals than preparing for calculus. And my students' scores have been high enough where I've been nominated for national awards based on my test scores alone.

Like I said, I am sure you would tell me that I am wrong (and based upon information that you are not allowed to view at that!).

But hey, I am just stereotyping, not basing my comments upon facts or experience. ???

Good for you though - you are there teaching and trying to help kids. I can't say the same of others or even myself. For that you are one huge step up on me. But, you don't convince me that public schools (especially in big cities) are an adequate substitute to private schools. Sorry, I am the product of both. My children have been through both. I started a company that catered to both. And, while it might pale to your own experience (that was said in all sincerity, no sarcasm) - my opinions are based upon my experience and the experiences of countless other parents and students.

I can say this (and yes, I am stubborn and like the last word) NOTHING you can say will convince me that the SF public school system (but for 2 lower schools, zero middle schools and 1 high school) are any better at educating our children than simply strapping them into the chair from A Clockwork Orange.

send your kids to private school. that's a great idea. they can learn real world skills there. Learn how to interact with all different walks of life. Private schools don't leave kids THAT sheltered. All those rich snobby duke lacrosse players probably went to inner city public schools. That's why that situation was a big mistake, right?

make sure they grow up understanding that there are no bad people in the real world...just poor people

Not so at all. Never used the phone during school, I checked the billing statement. It was seen during PE class by a staff member and taken.

apples wrote:

Not so at all. Never used the phone during school, I checked the billing statement. It was seen during PE class by a staff member and taken.

Fine, I am not trying to villify your daughter, but if these phones were not a problem, they would not have been banned. Since they were banned, your daughter should not have had it on school grounds.

She did, and it was taken. To stop the kids from texting all day, the rules have to apply to everyone. Even those that slightly bend them as opposed to fully ignore them.

I still think you should go in there and demand the phone be returned to you.

Ummmm...I guess you didn't just read the very recent research conducted by the Department of Education

This research stated that students with similar backgrounds (meaning middle or upper class) acually did BETTER in public schools than private schools.

This was done by a department that is dominated by Bush supporters who are trying to push his private school vouchers on the nation. They were not to happy about this when the research come out because it proved that public schools were acually better than private.

I'm suprised you didn't see this it was all over the national news for at least a week. The Dems loved it when this data came out.

Now this doesn't mean all public schools are better than private. I'm even willing to bet that the best private school in the nation is better than the best public school in the nation. But as a whole the public school system does better at educating the masses than private schools. The research supports my view only your opinion supports yours.

Yes, that study was crap. Even if it were true public schools outspend their private counterparts 3 to 2.

Yeah, because public schools have to educate everyone. Special education is expensive. Private schools don't have to deal with it. But I guess we should just let the free market take care of special needs kids...