My E-VALUE-ASHUN wrote:
they were outran at VCP.
"outrun"
My E-VALUE-ASHUN wrote:
they were outran at VCP.
"outrun"
this is EXACTLY accurate...
My E-VALUE-ASHUN wrote:
Princeton (50) ran ok, but were lucky to be so much more talanted than the Columbia guys who raced with much more heart.
Columbia (63) As impressive as performance as I have ever seen from a group of unknowns. Princeton walked away knowing eventhough they won they were outran at VCP.
i'm sure the princeton guys are lamenting how they were "outran" as they party on prospect.
Great race by the Mullen sisters - congratulations.
Princeton was most definitely not outrun yesterday.
Captain Paul Rosa came virtually anonymity to place 5th! Bud Grote went from almost not racing to being 4th on the team and guaranteeing a championship. It wasn't our best race for sure, but the only way you can be outrun is if you lose.
tigerrunner09 wrote:
Princeton was most definitely not outrun yesterday.
Captain Paul Rosa came virtually anonymity to place 5th! Bud Grote went from almost not racing to being 4th on the team and guaranteeing a championship. It wasn't our best race for sure, but the only way you can be outrun is if you lose.
The above point actually may prove your detractors point.
You guys won for sure as I thought you would so congrats. I think if they run that meet 10 times, you win it 9.
That being said, would you have run if you had to only run 7? The fact that you can run 12 at Heps is a joke. It takes all coaching and peaking when it counts out of the equation.
Princeton has like 5 915 guys every year coming in. Thus you can have some guys like 1405 frank tinney run terrible and still do well because some underachiever finally does well.
Hence you guys do better at meets when you could run a ton (Griak, Heps) than say prenats when you can't run that many (Pre-Nats).
I'm not trying to take anything away from your deserved championship. The rules are run 12 and columbia is just the same boat as they have even more distance guys than you so obviously you'd win as dartmouth did terrible.
But which team actually peaked the best? That too me would be question to somehow analyze. I don't know how you prove that. Any suggestions?
That is dumbest post I've seen. I hope you don't go to an Ivy-League school. They used to run 9 at Heps before 2001 when they had a JV race. Running 12 makes it seem like more of cross-country race. After they kicked out Navy, there are only 8 teams, if they just ran 7 there would only be 56 guys.
Even at 12, it feels like half the race is missing when you start off on the flats. The 9-12 runners have little bearing on the outcome of the race - 5 score 7 displace and there is plenty of space on the course. If anything it would help Columbia because of there "go out last" style - they have less chumps to pass by in the backhills.
r u drunk wrote:
I hope you don't go to an Ivy-League school.
... because of there "go out last" style...
their-ownership
there-position
they're-contraction
It's not that hard.
Thank you.
Anyone with any inside information with what is going on at Brown? I know that there was great controversy there last year and after this week things must be falling apart.
Princeton still comfortably beat Columbia at Pre-Nats even with seven runners, also you can hardly call Rosa an underachiever, he finished in front of all the Columbia team at Pre-Nats!
Top 5 Average Times from Pre-NCAA's to Heps
Princeton
24.38 (P) 24.57 (Heps) +19
Columbia
24.57 (P) 25.04 (Heps) +7
Dartmouth
21.41 (P) 25.06 (Heps) +27
Top 5 Average Times from Pre-NCAA's to Heps
Princeton
24.38 (P) 24.57 (Heps) +19
Columbia
24.57 (P) 25.04 (Heps) +7
Dartmouth
24.41 (P) 25.06 (Heps) +27
Wash-B wrote:
Anyone with any inside information with what is going on at Brown? I know that there was great controversy there last year and after this week things must be falling apart.
Brown stuck 5 guys between 25:12 and 25:29. Most years that gets it done for a decent performance. Brown didn't run horribly, most of the other teams just ran better.
What the Hell I'll give my synopsis. (But they run the race for one reason to determine the winner and order of finish. It is somewhat foolish to go back and grade the teams on a different set of criteria but at the same time each team does have different expectations coming in.):
1) Princeton- they walked away with the trophy. The consensus in my house was they would win all season long and they delivered.People are bitching about them being able to run 12? Give me a break. They would have won if they had to score their 6th or 7th runner.
2) Columbia- they ran very well. They deserved to get 2nd. Their pack finished higher than most would have predicted. Home course advantage? Who cares? The Heps have always been at VCP and alwayas will be. When Columbia was last every year no one complained.
3) Dartmouth- the biggest disappointment on the day. Granted they were only 1 place worse than I expected but they didn't deliver on Friday. They had nearly all of their top 5 back from last year and people were talking about a top 10 nationals finish heading into the season. Now they're 3rd in the league. They had to leave VCP more upset than anyone.
4) Yale- biggest surprise of the day. The league is very deep and they run the race for a reason but based on recent performances I expected them to get last and I'm an alum. I was pleasantly surprised. I was talking with coach Ireland during the race and he said the guys were talented and could run well if they would just somehow put it together. They did.
5) Cornell- I should never be surprised by Jimmy Wyner but he surprised me once again. 2nd place? I thought he had it in him but he was 40 something last year and I thought perhaps if he went with the leaders the hills could possibly get to him. Maybe falling down helped him as he just ran.
The top 3 ran better than expected. Sage Canaday was in the lead at 4 miles pushing the pace with Jimmy. I couldn't believe they were 1-2. Sage faded a bit the last mile and finished 12th (his overall finish wasn't higher than expected but the way he ran impressed me) but I'm not going to criticize a guy for going for it. Sometimes when you lead and people pass you it can cause some problems. The 4 and 5 ran as fast as I could expect coming in. The problem was the rest of the league ran even faster than expected so they were pretty far back. Still the teams' best race of the season. The seniors on the team killed them (Ricky Lader 21st? at Heps last year decided not to run this year, and Brad Baird the steeplecahse champ (top 15 last year) has run horribly all year for a still unknown reason.) But a lot of other teams don't have everything go as expected either.
6) Penn- finished where I expected them too. ALthough I thought they'd lose to Brown and beat Y and H.
7) Brown- they put 5 between 25:12 and 25:29. Usually that is a good performance. This year it was 7th. A few seconds a man and they could probably be 4th as the teams were not that far apart.
8) Harvard- It sucks to finish last, but they didn't run worse than expected in my opinion. Yale just ran a lot better and no teams bombed. When you're picked to finish 7th and you finish 8th that is not a horrible run.
Weldon,
I wasn't at the race, but apparently one of Columbia's guys was running as their 3 guy with 1000 to go and ended up their 8th guy? From what I heard, had he stayed up there during the last 1000, they would have beat Princeton. Given that, it appears they ran even better than most are giving them credit for!
The last 1000 doesn't count? And here I've been thinking that it's your position at the finish line that matters most.
Conto wrote:
Weldon,
I wasn't at the race, but apparently one of Columbia's guys was running as their 3 guy with 1000 to go and ended up their 8th guy? From what I heard, had he stayed up there during the last 1000, they would have beat Princeton. Given that, it appears they ran even better than most are giving them credit for!
I don't think this was true, as they finished in similar positions to when they entered Cemetary...
I heard the samething that dude finished as CU's 8th though he was like 3rd in the race atop cemetary. At that point CU had a shot to win. Columbia was thinking they would finish 4th or 5th. The boys ran out of their minds. No one thought they had any frontrunners, to hang with the leaders through 7k is a ballzy effort. Anything else CU still gets 2nd. At least the dude ran to win.
The pre-nats course was much faster - CU had the lowest differnec b/w pre-nats and heps - 7 secs. Great day. Great coaching.
I luv Conto wrote:
I heard the samething that dude finished as CU\'s 8th though he was like 3rd in the race atop cemetary.
Columbia didn't have anyone in the top 3 places at any point in the race. Top 3 guys at the top of cemetary were True, Wyner, and Nightingale, with Mucchetti trailing.
Whoops. That dude was 13th atop cemetary not 3rd. Whats a tens place matter? CU still looked at that point that they could challenge for the win. Maybe wishful thinking.