JIM RYUNS STORY!!!! 5:30 MILE TO 4:10 MILE

Not according to Ryun himself and his son Drew, who posted as such on here!

Have you bothered to read the entire thread going back to 2006 ?

Living in the Past,

While you are spot-on with your entire response here (and it was enjoyable to read), one line struck me as an understatement:

"It's pretty obvious that Timmons was pushing Ryun to short-term glory. Timmons had had some earlier coaching fame with Archie San Romani at Wichita East, and the success he had with Ryun made him a coaching superstar. He got an offer to head KU's track program, so he didn't even coach Ryun in Ryun's senior year. The assistant coach, J.D. Edmiston, was Ryun's coach. So Timmons got a huge career boost thanks to Ryun."

In the second sentence, for our younger viewers, you are correct but that is an understatement. Archie San Romani was the HSR holder in the Mile. First kid under 4:10 and broke the previous record (4:11.0) by 2.1 seconds.

4:08.9 Archie San Romani Jr. East Wichita 1959 (Jim Ryun's HS)

I agree with all that you wrote and know that his training was (by today's standards) insane. But can you imagine having the HSR holder in a glamour event like the Mile and then having Jim Ryun? Just five yrs later?

I happen to think it was a fluke and that they both might have done better with different training. I think had Timmons stayed, his "program" would not have produced any more studs than the school would have without him, but imagine what a genius Timmons must have looked like in the 1960s?

He based his training on swimming intervals, which maight have been OK if he had just had these intervals every other day, or every 4th workout?

Carnivore 69 wrote:

Sophomore first attempt in practice was 5:38.

Junior last attempts were 3:59.0 and 3:39.0 (1500) and an Olympic berth at 17.

Sorry, but this is false. He placed second in his first race as a soph. He ran 4:26 in his second race and in his words, "The pressure was always there after that."

He set a soph record of 4:07.0y and then a Junior record of 3:59.0 (also HSR), and then 3:55.3.

So he was the fastest soph, junior and senior the WORLD had ever seen for 35 years until Alan Webb came along.

Keep in mind though Ryun's marks were made on cinder and dirt tracks. He is also the ONLY HS boy to run sub-4 in a HS-only race in all of history.

Sweeping Generalisation wrote:

Have you bothered to read the entire thread going back to 2006 ?

Yup.

Did you bother to watch the clips I linked?

Sweeping Generalisation wrote:

Not according to Ryun himself and his son Drew, who posted as such on here!

Doesn't mean anything.

Synthetic tracks are faster. Even with that benefit, he didn't match his previous times.

newname wrote:

Sorry, but this is false. He placed second in his first race as a soph. He ran 4:26 in his second race and in his words, "The pressure was always there after that."

He ran 5:38 in a time trial his sophomore year, which was his first timed mile.

I will bet you $100 that that is wrong. He ran that as a freshman.

If you have The Jim Ryun Story look it up and If I am wrong I will mail you $100.

newname wrote:

I will bet you $100 that that is wrong. He ran that as a freshman.

If you have The Jim Ryun Story look it up and If I am wrong I will mail you $100.

From page 7 of the Jim Ryun Story (parts only). " Here he was on September 7th, 1962, trying to run a mile."

Split only as they are given in the next three paragraphs with a narrative.

86-89-69-94=5:38. 13 runners finished a head of him.

We all know he ran 4:07.8 mile in 1963 as a sophomore.

Page 35 Jim Ryun Story: " He had broken sophore records in the 880, mile and 2-mile..."

Same page: " This is Jim's schedule from October 5 to 11, 1963, at the age of 16 1/2, beginning his junior year."

He was a sophomore when he ran that 5:38 not a freshman.

Keep your money.

Just for info. I went to a junior high as a freshman. In 1971 I started high as a sophomore. That same year the 8th grade class also started high school as freshman.

The high school I went to went from a three high to a four year high school.

I don't know if my high school was the only that did that or if all high schools went from three years to four year school in 1971.

newname wrote:

I will bet you $100 that that is wrong. He ran that as a freshman.

If you have The Jim Ryun Story look it up and If I am wrong I will mail you $100.

What the guy above me said.

By the way, I own (1) The Jim Ryun Story, (2) Jim Ryun: Master of the Mile, and (3) In Quest of Gold: The Jim Ryun Story, as well as a documentary on his career.

Bad bet on your part.

Reading through your two responses, I can see why you said that. I knew he was not a good runner as a 9th grader. It sounds like you two are the ones to ask what he ran that year?

But when I said that he ran 4:26 in his second race, I meant track season. (and BTW, was I right? I don't own any of those books, that was from memory)

Yes, I can see that he may have run 5:38 in his first effort as a soph, but that is disingenuous to say that he went from 5:38 to 4:10. At the very least it would have to be in the same track season to count.

Everyone is a 5:38 miler sometime, it is just a matter of how far you go back in time and their ability was probably not even measured.

Had he actually run 5:38 in a race and then improved to 4:07 in one season (which I knew he did not) I was prepared to say "I was wrong" and ask for your address and mail you the money. But that is not what happened.

When I said "he ran that as a freshman" I meant that at no point in his sophomore track season did he run a 5:38 mile under competitive conditions.

You were right though and I was wrong that he "started out" at 5:38 that year and finished in 4:07.8y.

The very important thing to focus on here is...........................50X freakin 400 are you kidding me!!!

The guy you originally replied to wrote "Sophomore first attempt in practice was 5:38."

To which you replied "Sorry, but that is false."

Then I wrote "He ran 5:38 in a time trial his sophomore year, which was his first timed mile.

To which you replied "I will bet you $100 that that is wrong. He ran that as a freshman."

Not sure why you're bending over backwards to explain why you were wrong, but not really wrong.

Now that this thread has been picked up by Ventolin and his several other identities, it's going to go downhill fast. His obsessive, blinkered and biased views re Ryun will just pollute this fascinating discussion , which is a shame.

He even claims to know more than the Ryun's themselves about Ryun snr's ability. Their word is gospel when it backs up his outlandish claims, but then he dismisses them if what they say contradicts him.

Both Ryun's said that Jim was in as good a shape in 72 as he had been in 67. His training times and the way he ran at the U.S. trials are used as evidence by them. By this time he was running mainly on synthetic, yet his times didn't approach what he had done in 67 on dirt.

reader of the forums wrote:

The guy you originally replied to wrote "Sophomore first attempt in practice was 5:38."

To which you replied "Sorry, but that is false."

Then I wrote "He ran 5:38 in a time trial his sophomore year, which was his first timed mile.

To which you replied "I will bet you $100 that that is wrong. He ran that as a freshman."

Not sure why you're bending over backwards to explain why you were wrong, but not really wrong.

Fair enough. You were right and I was wrong. I should have read it more carefully before saying you were wrong. Because you were right and I should have kept quiet.

I also learned something, so there is that!

nonsense

i post under 1 handle

more nonsense

this thread was so "fascinating", it had been dead for ~ 9y

my opinions on Ryun are based on hard analysis based on vids/splits/tracks

seeing as Ryun was a 20y ole kid in his prime, it's not hard to get more considered opinion

salazar, is considered best & probably best informed coach in the world today :

he reckoned mo was good for 3'30

i said his upper limit from watching races & use of an online calculator was 3'28

shows how much sal knew about his own guy who he has studied microscopically

sometimes athletes & coaches aren't best judge of potential

best judge of potential is to analyse some quality races or finishes, if available

nonsense

i have never wanted to know anything other than if Ryun felt if he was in better shape in '67 v '66

i need nothing from him about his '72 shape

the races tell us he was a shadow of his '67 peak :

a paced 3'52+ on synthetic in '72 doesn't anywhere compare to a solo 3'51.1 on dirt in '67

no chance

you don't run slower on synthetic than dirt if you are in same shape

this claim appears wishful thinking in an attempt to amplify the loss he musta felt at getting tripped in heats of 1500 by some chump

i don't think Ryun wouda been in better than 3'31/3'32 shape in munich

a mere fraction of his '67 shape

i still don't think he wouda won final, as that "reindeer-blood" finn was possibly in 3'31 at worst, perhaps even 3'30 shape & had run a euro record 1'44+ prior to games

Ryun's '72 claims seem an indirect way of claiming he wouda won gold in '72 if re-instated to next round & then reach final

i don't think he wouda won

Sweeping generalisation wrote:He certainly was never going to run 3:43, whoever coached him

not on dirt

Previous posters suggested he was in as good a form in training in 72 as he was in 67. Well he had enough runs on synthetic in 72 and came nowhere near the times he ran on cinders

exactly

he was never in same shape again as '67

reader of the forums wrote:

Sweeping generalisation wrote:

Previous posters suggested he was in as good a form in training in 72 as he was in 67. Well he had enough runs on synthetic in 72 and came nowhere near the times he ran on cinders.

Because he was a shadow of his former self.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk7LixSkgOg&t=4m34shttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT2ANRbiiH8&t=25m43shttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8COaMKbNrX0&t=3m19s

Thanks for those interesting links. Especially the one on Ron Clarke.

newname wrote:

I happen to think it was a fluke and that they both might have done better with different training. I think had Timmons stayed, his "program" would not have produced any more studs than the school would have without him, but imagine what a genius Timmons must have looked like in the 1960s?

He based his training on swimming intervals, which maight have been OK if he had just had these intervals every other day, or every 4th workout?

Your response is total ignorance.

Bob Timmons was and is the greatest high school coach of all time.

newname wrote:

He set a soph record of 4:07.0y and then a Junior record of 3:59.0 (also HSR), and then 3:55.3.

soph records of 4:08.2 and then 4:07.8

newname wrote:

I will bet you $100 that that is wrong. He ran that as a freshman.

If you have The Jim Ryun Story look it up and If I am wrong I will mail you $100.

You lose. Ryun ran 5:38 in a practice mile in cross country, worked up to winning a B race invitational, then got 6th place at state. A newspaper article stated Wichita East won the state meet with no outstanding runners.

In the spring, Ryun ran a 4:49 mile in practice, prior to following defending state champ Charlie Harper all the way to a 4:32 in the first track meet/invitational of the season. It was an amazing race. I went there to see Harper run, and knew a little of Ryun's cross country results but had no clue who he was.