He hasn't been pulling out of any meets like a druggy would.
He hasn't been pulling out of any meets like a druggy would.
good point..but we will have to wait and see..or whatever.
Powell Power wrote:
He hasn't been pulling out of any meets like a druggy would.
bull f***ing shit.
he just has the next great drug shit that he can take with confidence to not get caught.
Let's all hope and pray that sometime in October, we'll not hear something to the effect that Asafa tested positive for doping in July.
I have nothing against this guy, I wish him well but at the rate that things are going; Floyd Landis, Justin Gatlin and now Marion Jones, I will not be that surprised.
Something fishy is going on with this doping thing. Could it be that the athletes don't do it consciously? Just a thought.
NativeSon wrote:
Something fishy is going on with this doping thing. Could it be that the athletes don't do it consciously?
Subconscious ass injections?
seems kinda funny that if everyone else is cheating with drugs that the only one who isnt cheating is the guy who wins and sets the records? Kinda hard to buy this theory. Fot the record he is cheating as well, its the only way that he can and does win against all of the other cheaters.
almost all steroids have to be injected into joints.
so you know if what you are getting is roids
No doubt the guy is talented, but I'd say he is definitely taking human growth hormone. Him and all the other Jamacians. Hence their international success. And who can blame him? It remains undetectable. And every other top sprinter is also on it.
What a stupid thread.
The first guy thinks he is clean because he races a lot and this guy thinks he is dirty because he is Jamaican.
Real fundamental detective work.
Now it makes sense for those who think he is dirty because he is the fastest ever in a sport that has many dirty athletes.
But if that is the case then no one can ever run fast and be considered legit so the sport is a total sham.
No win situation
Laowai wrote:
NativeSon wrote:Something fishy is going on with this doping thing. Could it be that the athletes don't do it consciously?
Subconscious ass injections?
Sleep-injecting. Kinda like sleep walking or sleep eating, just with a needle.
they know about it wrote:
almost all steroids have to be injected into joints.
so you know if what you are getting is roids
could be arthritis cream or flaxseed oil ;)
Asafa will race anywhere, anytime. His coach has no lengthy list of positive tests to his credit. Powell doesn't appear to look like some action figure.
I think that he's simply the fastest human on the planet.
Powell Power wrote:
I truly believe Powell is Clean!
He hasn't been pulling out of any meets like a druggy would.
You live in fantasy land.
wesuk wrote:
seems kinda funny that if everyone else is cheating with drugs that the only one who isnt cheating is the guy who wins and sets the records? Kinda hard to buy this theory. Fot the record he is cheating as well, its the only way that he can and does win against all of the other cheaters.
No, that was Justin Gatlin, remember? Powell was the guy who came in like 5th at the Olympics and hasn't beat Gatlin yet (I believe).
Just let them use steroids. The drug testing process is so flawed and the cheaters with money can always stay ahead of the tests. The line drawn between what is "legal" and "illegal", "natural" and "unnatural" is already completely arbitrary. Allowing steroids would have the effect of closing the gap between those big money stars who can afford the undetectable stuff and those who refuse to "cheat". Track and field in all its history has never been about "intrinsic human performance". Athletes in 2006 and 1906 have used whatever outside performance enhancers they could to get an advantage. Maybe ill draw the line at shoving a motor up your ass...
Laowai wrote:
NativeSon wrote:Something fishy is going on with this doping thing. Could it be that the athletes don't do it consciously?
Subconscious ass injections?
What I meant is that it could as well be happening without the athletes' consent or knowledge. It is not out of the realms of possibility- at least in my view.
With the spotlight being shone on these great athletes-Marion, Justin, Floyd and Lance (who has never tested positive I might add), how stupid would they be to knowingly ingest or inject themselves with banned stuff?
It is not making sense to me. Nada.
mobile9 wrote:
Asafa will race anywhere, anytime. His coach has no lengthy list of positive tests to his credit. Powell doesn't appear to look like some action figure.
I think that he's simply the fastest human on the planet.
I have posted this before and I will again. In baseball there have been something like 18 players testing positive under the new testing. half of them have been pitchers. I only know of 1 other who could be considered a power hitter. They have not had the bodies of an action figure. Just because you take steroids does not meant that you get hudge. It is an advantage to Powell to stay light because it helps him accelerate. It is a law of physics that the lighter you are the faster you can accellerate.
Obviosly nobody knows who is juiced and who is not. I think Powell is a cheat but like everyone else I have no proof. Two races in 9.77, one at the beginning and one at the end of the summer. Nobody can hold their peak that long. unless he is about to prove that he has not peaked yet by running 2 to 4 tenths faster in the next month or so.
Then most others may thnk he is a cheater by making such a great drop. and the truth is he still could be if he does do that. There is no way to know until he fails a test.
NativeSon wrote:
What I meant is that it could as well be happening without the athletes' consent or knowledge. It is not out of the realms of possibility- at least in my view.
That's what I've been postulating for years. How can an athlete really trust any creams used during massage, any supplements labeled as "vitamins" or injections that might be passed off as vitamin B-12 or allergy shots? What about prescription drugs for any newly diagnosed, out-of-the-blue ailments? If you're taking something for alleged thyroid trouble, how do you know the diagnosis was legit in the first place or if it's really thyroid medication? What if blood is drawn for "lactate testing" and the needles used during 3 or 4 samples might have each been tainted with small amounts of drugs? Anything is possible. Athletes claim "sabotage" all the time. They're bound to be on the lookout for it. They'd never drink out of some bottle a random guy handed them at a meet. So if, despite their precautions, they somehow claim their toothpaste can still be spiked or a masseur with a grudge can use testosterone cream on them, how much easier would it be for a supposedly trustworthy source like a coach or agent to slip something in their water bottle or switch the contents of a vitamin container?
Obviously, if really amazing physical transformations take place, the athletes would be bound to know they're on drugs. But even then, if they always had their drugs administered to them by others rather than sticking the needles in their own bodies, they could honestly convince themselves they had never "used" (read: dosed themselves with) performance enhancing drugs. With the technicality of this twisted wording, and considering they honestly may not have any idea what's going into their bodies, they may see the doping as some sort of eyes-closed gift rather than a deliberate purchase or a conscious theft.
Luigi Vercotti wrote:
NativeSon wrote:What I meant is that it could as well be happening without the athletes' consent or knowledge. It is not out of the realms of possibility- at least in my view.
That's what I've been postulating for years. How can an athlete really trust any creams used during massage, any supplements labeled as "vitamins" or injections that might be passed off as vitamin B-12 or allergy shots? What about prescription drugs for any newly diagnosed, out-of-the-blue ailments? If you're taking something for alleged thyroid trouble, how do you know the diagnosis was legit in the first place or if it's really thyroid medication? What if blood is drawn for "lactate testing" and the needles used during 3 or 4 samples might have each been tainted with small amounts of drugs? Anything is possible. Athletes claim "sabotage" all the time. They're bound to be on the lookout for it. They'd never drink out of some bottle a random guy handed them at a meet. So if, despite their precautions, they somehow claim their toothpaste can still be spiked or a masseur with a grudge can use testosterone cream on them, how much easier would it be for a supposedly trustworthy source like a coach or agent to slip something in their water bottle or switch the contents of a vitamin container?
Obviously, if really amazing physical transformations take place, the athletes would be bound to know they're on drugs. But even then, if they always had their drugs administered to them by others rather than sticking the needles in their own bodies, they could honestly convince themselves they had never "used" (read: dosed themselves with) performance enhancing drugs. With the technicality of this twisted wording, and considering they honestly may not have any idea what's going into their bodies, they may see the doping as some sort of eyes-closed gift rather than a deliberate purchase or a conscious theft.
Luigi,
You are so eloquent than I. Thanks for that great info. You sound technical and better versed with the day to day issues of an athlete's life-supplements e.t.c.
This is the underpinning of my argument; Let's all say, for the sake of argument, that Marion Jones and Justin Gatlin doped KNOWINGLY, CONSCIOUSLY and in FULL AWARENESS of their actions and even more importantly, THE REPURCUSSIONS arising thereof as a result of a positive test.
QUESTION:
What are they to gain from that doping?
Two or three wins and a few hundred thousand dollars?
AT WHAT EXPENSE?
Life ban?? These guys are looking at a potential life ban, a ruined career and an ignominious exit from the World sporting stage. Don't we all remember how Michael Johnson got a graceful exit in Japan after a stellar career? Who wouldn't want that money or no money?
Who wouldn't want a good name, celebrity status and recognition everywhere he/she went - someone like Haile, Mutola, El G, Tergat, Michael Johnson, Carl Lewis,Said Aouita e.t.c.?
Why would they risk all that, KNOWINGLY, by KNOWINGLY doping and then, GETTING CAUGHT??
I am not understanding.
After all, Marion and Gatlin were the two fastest individuals at some point. WHAT MORE WOULD THEY WANT?
Why would Marion (who had never tested positive before) dope at the twilight of her career?
Why would Justin dope with only a few weeks to go before meeting Asafa for a possible World Record run? And then test positive and get a ban? Why?
I'll not be surprised if sometime in October, we receive news that Jeremy Wariner, Asafa Powell and Sanya Richards, all tested positive in July. Why would we be?
I'll say it here again, I AM NOT TOTALLY SOLD ON THIS DOPING THING!!!!!! Something has really gone awry.
There might be some neanderthals who are out to ruin the lives of athletes for whatever reason. That is what I think.
On the other hand, I have faced this issue with an open mind and if it turns out that they were CHEATS, then, so be it. I'll not cry, I'll not shed a tear.
Until then, I have my reservations. Nina shuku.
[quote]NativeSon wrote:
QUESTION:
What are they to gain from that doping?
Two or three wins and a few hundred thousand dollars?
/quote]
What the top athlete gains in not a few hundred thousand dollars but millions of dollars. Nike is paying Marion a rumored $3 million a year. But that will continue only if Marion can compete with the best in the world, and to do that she needs to be doping. In 2005, Marion tried to go clean and she ended up being a middle-of-the pack sprinter.
I suspect Nike (Phil Knight) told Marion she had to become more competitive if she wanted to retain her $3 million/year contract.
For Marion, Floyd, Justin, and other top athletes, the big risk of getting caught is more than offset by the huge financial gain they can get from sponsors by being close to the world's best on dope vs. out of the top-10 and clean.
Don't feel sorry for Marion, even if everyone now thinks she's crap. She can now quit T&F for good and probably has over $10 million saved away. If she never doped, she might be living hand to mouth right now.
I hate to see athletes get caught for doping as it further hurts our sport, but in Marion's case almost every knowledgeable person knew Marion was a doper and we'll be much better with her gone from T&F.
I'm only upset that USADA and IAAF didn't go after Marion based on sworn testomony of others (CJ Hunter, Victor Conte, Angel Heredia). There was likely enough evidence available to suspend Marion for two years without a positive test. That's what they did with her boyfriend, Tim Mountgomery.