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| mt. goat |
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Matt Carpender won the trail championships in Vail this weekend by a minute over Clint Wells, 10 years his senior. But on the awards stand Clint was given the check. Why? Matt did not pay the $15 dollar registration for USATF. The dirty laundry of USATF Mt. running is tumbling around again and many questions are circulating. Mainly, why won't the best trail racer in the U.S. join. The story was in Sundays Denver Post. The press release for the event was very misleading stating that the first USATF finisher would get an extra $100 making one think the other money was for open runners. Like it has been in the past. I feel this is a very bush league mistake and Matt should be given the money. If the top 5 had a conscious they would give Matt a portion of each of their earnings. |
| musiccity |
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that sounds shitty |
| Say what? |
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That's beyond shity! Check out the race website at http://www.tevamountaingames.com - click on Trail Running. No where does it even mention the USATF. And talk about ironic given what went down - they are plugging the race by saying "Look for Matt Carpenter to defend his crown and earn his piece of the $5,000 cash purse in 2006." Then read the press release at http://www.coloradorunnermag.com/news/Teva10KTrailChamps_2006.html Again there is no mention of the USATF other than the line that USATF members get an additional $100. Denver Post article is at http://www.denverpost.com/extremes/ci_3897601 |
| TGeldean |
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I haven't heard enough from Matt Carpenter on this one to completetly understand his motives for not being a registered USATF member. However, I have loads of respect what he has done for the sport, both as an athlete, and as a pioneer for change. So I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on this one. The press release (from USATF's Nancy Hobbs) very clearly states: "A prize purse of $5000 will be equally divided between the event's top male and female finishers. The breakdown in the prize money is as follows: $1000 for first place, $750 for second place, $500 for third place and $250 for fourth place. Additionally, $100 will be awarded to the top USATF male and female finishers." The kicker is the last sentence, of course. I don't understand why they didn't solve this whole problem by writing Carpenter a check for $985 (prize minus fee) and being done with it. Perhaps they would have still haggled over the $15, but I doubt it. What sucks is that trail running got a good sized article in the Denver Post, and almost none of it concerned actual running. 41 year old Matt Carpenter crushes the entire field in a rare prize money trail race, and USATF screws up the awarding of the money. |
| Erbli |
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If Carpenter is not a USATF member, how is it the USATF that is screwing up? This was a USATF event. What is so hard to understand about needing to be a USATF member? The USATF can't "make" Carpenter a member. Carpenter has to become a member...legal aspects of joining and all that jazz. |
| Runners love running |
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If it is a USATF championship, you have to be registered prior to the event. |
| tank |
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The prize money was not provided by USATF, it was provided by the sponsors (Teva included). The contract stated that the money would be awarded to those competing in the USATF Championships. Whether this is the best way to award prize money can be debated, but wasn't the issue on Saturday morning. The issue was that the rules were not clearly defined until Bill Roe decided what he felt to be what was in the best interests of the USATF. Their intention may have been so all along, but even in the press release on Thursday it was confusing. Nancy Hobbs, the MUT chair who I have found very supportive of athletes in almost all cases, had to back up her chairman on it. The language in the rules could be intrepreted many ways. In fact, I felt the rules clearly allowed any USATF member to compete in the Championships, not only US Citizens. So I signed up for the championships as a paying member of the USATF, only to be removed from the competition results because I am only a permanent resident. It didn't effect whether I got prize money, as I finished a couple of spots out of the money anyhow. But it showed once again, the inconsitency of the USATF and its lack of logic in supporting its membership. Matt is a man of principle and I understand why he feels there is no benefit in joining USATF. While one can argue that his approach is extreme, you have to admire that he is honest and stands by what he believes in. He has repeatedly stated that he is peeved by the USATF's lack of support in its athletes, which it should serve as an association. He wondered what benefit there was in Bill Roe coming down to Colorado, except to enforce the inconsistent rule. Last year, even foreign athletes were allowed to receive the prize money they earned (Anna Pichtrova and Melissa Moon) as non-USATF members, and I believe the sponsors insisted that the true winners get what they deserved. As was pointed out in the article, Clint knew where he stood in the competition, but he also ran great and is not at fault in any way in taking the money. Every runner there knew partly of the situation, and Matt was given the respect by these runners. However, to the spectators and others at the award cermony, he was a "ghost", which was a shame. |
| sad |
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Carpenter was trying to prove a point and 'stick it' to USATF by not joining. Unfortunately for him it backfired. It was sad seeing him scramble trying to redeem himself to get the money instead of proving his point. |
| Avocado's Number |
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The press release clearly supports the position that USATF membership was not required for anything other than the $100 award. So what put the competitors on notice that USATF membership was required to receive any prize money? |
| mt. man |
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I wish I knew more about the underbelly of USATF, it seems Matt does. I only see what is obvious. Favoritism, Inconsistancy, disconnect, Top heavy salaries, and petty rewards for the truely dedicated. I hope there will be change but these people seem unruffled. I guess when they get to travel the country and world on the memberships of the masses they do not have time to worry about little scandles. |
| Ktilton |
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Just as a side note, The mountain/ultra/trail races fall under USATF, but most of the funding comes from sponsors, such as Teva, Sporthill, 180's, Ground Bags, etc. I believe USATF only gives the MUT council around $1000 a year for an annual budget. The sponsors pay for the "vacations" of the hardworking team managers and the members of the team. |
| rafa1 |
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from the event website... USA 10km Trail Running Championship - Do you think you're a good runner? Do you want to be part of the USA Trail Running Team? If yes to either of the above, this is the race for you. The national championships return to Vail with a 10K run up and down the frontside of Vail Mountain . This early-season race typically features all the best of trail running in Colorado , steep uphill's, fast downhill's, creek crossings and plenty of mud! Look for Matt Carpenter to defend his crown and earn his piece of the $5,000 cash purse in 2006. 10km Spring Run-off - Same time, place and course as the Championship, but not the same competitors. But don't be fooled...this is not a race for the light hearted. The course is challenging and will make the legs burn all day. |
| mtrunner_wannabe |
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Here's what the article said about last year: "Last year, the organization paid for short-term memberships for every racer in order to meet insurance requirements, Dobbs said. That's why Carpenter, as well as international racers who were not USATF members, won cash prizes last year." That should be Hobbs, not Dobbs, btw. I do know that last year that Matt was not happy that he was signed up as a USATF member without his knowledge. The whole thing is ashame and, as someone else said, always ashame when trail running's biggest focus in a major newspaper is on the politics and not the sport. |
| trails |
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Sounds a little like Matt is talking out of both ends. He seemed genuinely confused that the prize money was for USATF members only, but also states that on "principle" he wouldn't pay $15 for a chance to win $1000. Sorry, I know he's well-liked by some, but Matt's "principles" are based on an elitist and entitlement attitude, whether it's the USATF or some small town race that won't comp the entry of "elite" athletes. I can only imagine the emails that Matt has fired off since this weekend. |
| Say what? |
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This is not about liking somewhat or not. If a couple days before the race runners are being told one thing and then after the race they are being told another then I think people have a right to be and should be "confused." Looks like Tank was a little "confused" as well so I guess you don't like him either? Look, it goes beyond one runner and for sure I don't see international runners returning to this race anymore and that's sad. |
| Avocado's Number |
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Matt and I may not see eye-to-eye on some of these matters, but I have yet to hear an intelligible argument for refusing to award him the full $1000 as the first male finisher, in accordance with the press release. |
| trails |
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No, it's not about liking or disliking Matt Carpenter. He's an incredibly talented and tough runner, no argument here. Also, from the outside, it does appear that things were not clear going into last weekend's race. However, if Matt states that on principle he won't pay a $15 USATF membership for the shot to win $1000, I'm not sure that he should be complaining about it being unclear. So, if it was obvious that you needed to join USATF, would Matt have paid his $15??? His comment to the Denver Post seems to state otherwise. And why shouldn't the USATF sponsor a race that crowns a US champion and gives prize money to the top US runners??? Do foreign runners expect to win USATF money at track nationals??? |
| Muger Cement |
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PRESS RELEASES do not dictate pay-outs at USATF races. Get your information correct, please. |
| Avocado's Number |
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Contrary to your apparent belief, this issue is governed by Colorado law, not the whims or internal policies of USATF. Under Colorado law, a press release such as this can be binding as a matter of both contract and (if reliance can be shown) promissory estoppel. Moreover, nobody here has yet cited any legal basis for withholding the money from Matt. |
| Say what? |
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I am glad to hear you say its not about liking or disliking someone. So why then did you bring up the issue? That was a cheap shot! You can not speak to what people would or would not do. Nor can you speak to what they did and did not know. But if Ktilton above is correct about the USATF only giving the MUT $1,000 per year then perhaps taking an anti USATF position is not so far off base! As far as foreign runners getting money at the TEVA Games - YES! Read the race wrap-up from last year apparently written by the same Dobbs or Hobbs http://www.trailrunner.com/news/2005_10K_champions_vail.pdf The international competition and the USATF competition coexisted peacefully and I for one thought that was cool. Dobbs or Hobbs seemed to like it as well. Now the same person who talked up the international flavor of the race last year has pulled a 180 and it appears that will no longer be the case. Again that is sad. From my perspective the USATF has now ruined this race. That is my concern here folks! Finally, I flat out challenge you on your contention that the $5,000 was USATF money. All indications are that this was TEVA Games sponsor money and the USATF was putting up a whopping extra $100. I have not heard one complaint about that $100 and if the USATF put up the $100 then it is within their right to dictate where it goes. The other money should go to the first runners across the line as it has in years past. Just as the press release said it would. To me it looks like the USATF found themselves in a pickle the last couple of years since foreign female runners won the race. This year they thought they could screw one runner (and Tank who finished out of the money) and get away with it. Perhaps they did - but it has not gone unnoticed. |
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