The comment made by Steve Scott was uncalled for. I don't agree with the statement "you need to be born and raised here" to get a record...but I can understand the "raised here" part. My opinion of Steve went down the shitter. I DO hope his record gets destroyed.
I don't think it's too out of line. I had no problem with Meb breaking an American Record, because he grew up here an became the runner he is while he was here.
Lagat....? Well, he was a pro runner who came over here, I dunno...seems different to me.
Maybe if it was YOUR record that was on the line you'd see it differently.
stevescotttheone wrote:
The comment made by Steve Scott was uncalled for. I don't agree with the statement "you need to be born and raised here" to get a record...but I can understand the "raised here" part. My opinion of Steve went down the shitter. I DO hope his record gets destroyed.
He didn't say "you need to be born and raised here". If you're going to quote someone, at least quote them correctly. He said..."If you're going to have you're record taken away, you'd like it to be broken by someone born and raised here in America."
Makes sense to me. I have nothing against Lagat or anyone else becoming an American citizen, but it doesn't seem quite fair that someone from Kenya who's run for Kenya all his life can suddenly switch nationalities and start breaking records.
While you may not agree with what SS said, I don't think it's hard to understand why he feels that way.
very good quote
I guess he's not keen on being a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, nevertheless he's dead on correct vis a vis his sentiments.
HSD wrote:
...but it doesn't seem quite fair that someone from Kenya who's run for Kenya all his life can suddenly switch nationalities and start breaking records.
what do you mean, it doesn't seem quite fair?
did lagat not work hard to run fast? did he run on a track that was short? did he not meet all the citizenship requirements?
the "American" record means the fastest time run by an American citizen, plain and simple.
Somehow in this county, even with every kid in grade school learning that one of the things that made the united states different is that we allow those who are not born here to become citizens, some people still have a problem with it.
why the hell do we attach any sort of value to the geographical location you were born and raised? who cares? what i care about is your desire to be american and your willingness to follow the laws that we all follow.
the fact is, you and me and steve scott have a heck of a lot more in common with bernard lagat than we have in common with some fat-ass, beer swilling, NASCAR fan who is a functional illiterate.
put another way: if you were in charge of a club - wouldn't you want the best people in the club? wouldn't you be excited that someone of great stature wanted to join the club, rather than just the guy down the street who smoked meth and beats his kids?
great post
I believe if you compete for one country as an olympian you shouldn't be able to break records for another country
onus wrote:
I believe if you compete for one country as an olympian you shouldn't be able to break records for another country
In the Brave New World there are no borders.
"hadd about enough" = bitter immigrant
While I understand Steve Scott and think he is justified in saying what he said, I think that "hadd about enough" made a great post.
The only criticism I have with it is that a fat beer swilling NASCAR fan has no chance of breaking Steve's record. I'm sure that Steve Scott has no problem with immigrants like Lagat in general but just wants his record to be passed on to someone who had a more shared background with him.
So you wouldn't mind who broke the record, Lagat or Alan Webb? Or to put it another way, if Alan Webb ran the race of his life and broke the record, then a week later Lagat broke it again, you'd be fine about that?
How about if all the best Kenyans and Ethiopians got US citizenship, broke all the records and prevented Webb, Ritz and others from ever competing again for their country in World Champs or Olympics? Would you mind about that?
im sure it wouldnt be a problem if he were a 4 15 miler and wasnt on the verge of being 1 of 2 guys that will break the AR in the mile, it wouldnt be an issue.but of course it is because people find things to make into issues, all the time. if he breaks it more power to him, along with Alan Webb. we finally have 2 people that are close, and that is a good thing not something that should be bashed, and the fact that someone that great wanted to run for the USA is a testament to us and we should praise that, not knock it.
good luck, Bernard go get it!
are you sure? wrote:
How about if all the best Kenyans and Ethiopians got US citizenship, broke all the records and prevented Webb, Ritz and others from ever competing again for their country in World Champs or Olympics? Would you mind about that?
Sounds to me like you're implying that Webb, Ritz et al can never be good enough to beat the Kenyans and Ethiopians. I don't think Webb and Ritz think that way. At least I hope not.
could someone post the article?
he wont prevent anyone from going anywhere, if they run fast enough like they should, then they will go to the worlds or olympics, simple as that. we actually have a few guys that light a fire under everyone elses asses and make them realize that sit and kick thru rounds AND finals dont cut it in the big game, and that you need to run hard each round, and prep yourself for the wars at worlds and olympics. you are actually going to say that this is a bad thing? would you rather watch 10 more years of 4 02 miles instead of 3 47-50, i didnt think so...
enough of the sit and kick crap and then getting creamed overseas, this is a good thing, and it will continue to get better. and if you are gonna bitch about Lagat then bitch about Khalid Khannouchi too...hes a great guy like Lagat, fantastic runner, and is faster than any american over the marathon, AND he grew up here like Lagat did for a long time. does that prevent you from sleeping at night too? i didnt think it did.
props to lagat, khalid, Meb
Top Runners Ready to Test Themselves
Lagat and Webb, the best U.S. milers, are in Saturday's Adidas Classic at the Home Depot Center -- Lagat in the 1,500 and Webb in the two-mile.
By Lonnie White, Times Staff Writer
May 18, 2006
The top two milers in the United States will compete at the Adidas Classic on Sunday at The Home Depot Center.
But Bernard Lagat and Alan Webb will not run against each other. Lagat — a native of Kenya who became a U.S. citizen last year — will be in the 1,500, and Webb — the high school national record holder in the mile — is entered in the two-mile.
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This will only add to their rivalry as both runners aim to set the U.S. record in the mile this year.
Lagat, who set the national record in the 1,500 meters last year with a time of 3 minutes 29.30 seconds, and Webb, who ran a personal best of 3:48.92 in the mile last year, are both determined to break Steve Scott's U.S. record in the mile of 3:47.69.
Scott, who coaches at Cal State San Marcos, said this about the possibility of Lagat's breaking the mile record:
"If I said that I wouldn't be bothered by having someone who was not born American break the record, I'd be lying," said Scott, who established his mark in 1982. "It bothered me when Sydney Maree, who came here from South Africa, broke the record in the 1,500. If you're going to have you're record taken away, you'd like it to be broken by someone born and raised here in America.
"But on the other side of the coin, almost all of us came here from somewhere else. My mother's parents came over from Germany, so I'm just a second generation here. That's how this country is set up. Just one of those things that happens."
With Lagat and Webb ranking among the world's best four-lap runners, the U.S. has been going through an upswing in the middle distances. But the key to the resurgence is Lagat, a two-time Olympic medalist for Kenya. Although he's ineligible to compete internationally for the U.S. this year, Lagat is regarded as a major runner among the world's best milers. His personal record in the mile is 3:47.28, a performance Lagat accomplished in 2001 and a time he hopes to better this year.
"I wanted to do it last year, but it didn't go the way I wanted," said Lagat, a former NCAA champion runner at Washington State. "So this year, I'm really trying to go after it this year."
On Sunday, Lagat's main competition is expected to come from Rachid Ramzi of Bahrain, the 2005 world champion at 800 and 1,500 meters, and Adam Goucher, a talented U.S. cross-country champion.
But Lagat knows that down the line, his top competition will come from Webb, who ran 27:34.72 in the 10,000 at Stanford earlier this year, the fastest debut in U.S. history.
"Alan is a young one, but then again, he's been around a while and we don't look at him as a newcomer anymore," Lagat said. "He's a great athlete who runs very well. He's been running cross-country and his time in the 10K was amazing. To see a miler run like that is really good stuff."
Webb, the reigning U.S. champion in the 1,500, will have a tough race against Abdi Abdirahman, two-time U.S. champion in the 10,000 — a challenge Scott says Webb can handle because of his throwback style.
"Last year, I predicted that he'll be the best American middle distance runner ever and I still stick by that," Scott said. "I know that I'm just an old broken-down miler, but I truly believe that. He just needs to work on his 800 a little bit. Just look at his times across the board, from the 800 to the 10,000."
Craig Masback, chief executive of USA Track and Field, is thrilled about watching the rivalry grow between Lagat and Webb.
"There's going to be a lot of exciting duels between them to come," Masback said. "But it's not just them. We're having the best fields that we've ever had with an American base. I believe we're seeing the best depth in middle distance runners in 20 years."
What if you were a college senior and #1 runner on your team and school record holder then some guy transfers from a rival school in the second semester of his 5th year. He takes over as #1 runner and breaks your record. How would you feel? Technically, there's no reason he shouldn't be considered by all to be the new record holder. But he didn't run 4 years of competion and 5 years of training (assuming a red shirt year) with the team. And you had run many times against him the previous 3 1/2 years of competition. I know I would not be very happy, even if his points helped us to win the conference championship.
I know this situation is different but Scott's feelings are perfectly understandable. It's not like he's saying that fast naturalized citizens should all go home. And it's not even like he's saying he hopes no one ever breaks his record. He just has a preference as to who breaks it.