sub 2 minute goal
Best 800m training, sprint training or endurance - for sub 2.10 3/20/2006 2:44PM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Whats the best form of training for someone hoping to break 2.10 for the 800m and why???

I have heard about speed reserve - is sprinting best (60, 150, 300, 600 off long recoveries) or longer sessions such as 6 x 1000m (what benefit would I get from this form of training - then tapering down when track season approaches)if not then why???

Why should I do a long run if I am only running for just over 2 minutes???

Many thanks.
Mtn Dew
RE: Best 800m training, sprint training or endurance - for sub 2.10 3/20/2006 2:59PM - in reply to sub 2 minute goal Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You're not jogging for two minutes, you are running your ass off for two minutes. Running that fast for two minutes requires aerobic conditioning. Seb Coe might not have done a ton of mileage, but he certainly could have run a decent 5k at his peak. The slower you are, the more aerobic conditioining matters. A 1:41 800m runner is running more anaerobically than a 2:30 800m runner. Running 18 miles for a long run might be excessive, but if you can go out and do 8-10 miles as a HS kid running the 8 that's not bad.

As for workouts it's important to work on pure speed (60m sprints and the like w/ full recovery) speed endurance (150-300m at about race pace w/ shorter recovery) Vo2 Max (1000s and the like) and then to work on just plain endurance. If you do two track workouts a week one should be shorter and one longer.
coach
RE: Best 800m training, sprint training or endurance - for sub 2.10 3/20/2006 4:41PM - in reply to Mtn Dew Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I am going to disagree, sort of. If all you want is to run a sub 2:10, if you want some short term mediocre success then do lots of anaerobic training. If you want long term development if you want to train properly then you need more aerobic conditioning. The faster you want to race the more aerobically you must train. I see this often on the HS level. Some coaches kill their half milers with lactic acid type workouts all the time. These athletes will be decent but will never develop. THOSE WHO DO WHAT Mtn Dew SUGGESTS WILL DEVELOP. So if this original poster wants to be mediocre but get some short term success then train purely anaerobically. If American 800 runners weren't stunted with all their sprint work at a young age we'd probably have more world class half milers.
Mtn Dew
RE: Best 800m training, sprint training or endurance - for sub 2.10 3/20/2006 4:49PM - in reply to coach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
There is a school of thought that too much anaerobic work at a young age can permanently damage 800m runners, look at Michael Granville, he was Mr. lactic acid.

2:10 isn't terribly fast on a world stage, but for a lot of kids it's a goal they really want to achieve and I think it's best to give them the most effective tools for success. A quick fix might be to run tons of anaerobic workouts, but I would only advise that for a senior that isn't going to run in college that wants to run fast within a couple months.
Vipam
RE: Best 800m training, sprint training or endurance - for sub 2.10 3/20/2006 5:00PM - in reply to sub 2 minute goal Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
IMPOSSIBLE to give accurate advice:

1.) without knowing your personal bests at 400m, 800m, and at least one other event longer than 800m.

2.) age and years running would be helpfully but not required.

3.) type of training done to reach your current 800m personal best
====

Why should you do long runs in training for a race that short?

Proper long runs are essential to improving endurance/stamina. The 800m has evolved into a sustained sprint; however, its still requires developed stamina/endurance. The greater endurance you have the longer you can hope to test your aerobic and anaerobic limits in the 800m. The key is finding out if your a speed type 800m runner or endurance type 800m runner and train to boosts your strengths while improving your weak points.
coach
RE: Best 800m training, sprint training or endurance - for sub 2.10 3/20/2006 7:46PM - in reply to Mtn Dew Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I agree with everything you state, hopefully the young runner asking for advice will take yours
dont understand
RE: Best 800m training, sprint training or endurance - for sub 2.10 3/21/2006 6:12AM - in reply to coach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
yeah but whats the point of running 10 miles during your long run if your only going to be running for just over 2 minutes??
Alex
RE: Best 800m training, sprint training or endurance - for sub 2.10 3/21/2006 6:44AM - in reply to dont understand Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

dont understand wrote:

yeah but whats the point of running 10 miles during your long run if your only going to be running for just over 2 minutes??


The higher your aerobic capacity, the faster the pace you can run before you start using your precious anaerobic reserves.

Knowing this, you do whatever training is appropriate to increase your aerobic capacity.
McGriddle
RE: Best 800m training, sprint training or endurance - for sub 2.10 3/21/2006 9:05AM - in reply to Alex Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
As another aspiring 800m runner w/ similar goals (except I'm in college), I'm trying to dig-up some good drills/weight training ideas for the 8. Any suggestions would really be appreciated..
Snyde Clyde
RE: Best 800m training, sprint training or endurance - for sub 2.10 3/21/2006 9:12AM - in reply to Mtn Dew Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Mtn Dew wrote:

look at Michael Granville, he was Mr. lactic acid.




I cansee why he changed his name.
800m runner
RE: Best 800m training, sprint training or endurance - for sub 2.10 3/21/2006 10:56AM - in reply to Vipam Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Would you do any sprinting sessions during the base?
coach
RE: Best 800m training, sprint training or endurance - for sub 2.10 3/21/2006 11:04AM - in reply to 800m runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
i would do short "anaerobic alactic" sessions such as 60 meter sprints or short hill sprints. Or 150s at 800 pace at the end of an easy run. There is no need for going into oxygen debt or for trying what some would call "lactic acid" sessions during the base period.
why??!!!???
RE: Best 800m training, sprint training or endurance - for sub 2.10 3/23/2006 2:15PM - in reply to coach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

coach wrote:

i would do short "anaerobic alactic" sessions such as 60 meter sprints or short hill sprints. Or 150s at 800 pace at the end of an easy run. There is no need for going into oxygen debt or for trying what some would call "lactic acid" sessions during the base period.

WHY would you not do lactic acid sessions during your base period - I'm not saying your wrong or right, just unsure. Many thanks. And how soon before the season begins would you begin intense track sessions?
info
RE: Best 800m training, sprint training or endurance - for sub 2.10 3/23/2006 2:45PM - in reply to why??!!!??? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Just a word of info. for those who think much speedwork the entire season is required to improve in the 800m...I know of a guy who had run 2:09 as his PR (I believe that was it, might have been 2:10)...anyways, he started training right and went to 1:59 at an indoor meet the next season without much competition. Did he do a lot of speedwork? No, he never ran faster than 75 for 400m rep's (he was looking to peak for outdoors so he was using indoors to get ready). He did long runs and tempos and basically didn't train like most 800m runners (lots of speedwork) think they have to. He developed his body into being an aerobic beast and dropped his PR by 10seconds in one race (and it was indoors) all because he realized he didn't have to be able to run a 50 for a 400m to break 2:00, he realized he needed the endurance to run 2x400m at sub-60 pace with no "long recovery"....rather, do it back to back.
BS!
RE: Best 800m training, sprint training or endurance - for sub 2.10 3/23/2006 2:51PM - in reply to info Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I don't believe you. Plain and simple, I don't believe you. I'm guessing he definitly ran faster than 5 min mile pace at some stage of his training.
info.
RE: Best 800m training, sprint training or endurance - for sub 2.10 3/23/2006 2:55PM - in reply to BS! Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Nope...all it took was improving his aerobic capacity, aerobic threshold, and aerobic power via long runs, and tempos. Think about it, for him 75 seconds per 400m would be faster than 5k pace, and close to the 3200m pace....it's not impossible to break 2:00 without hammering speedwork all season, plus it's better for your development long term. Don't believe me about the aerobic training part? Look around at any local high school - how many kids can run sub-60 for a 400m? Lots. How many can run 2:00 for an 800m, few if any. Endurance is needed in the 800m; just because it's a faster pace race, doesn't mean it doesn't require something besides speedwork.
800 guy
RE: Best 800m training, sprint training or endurance - for sub 2.10 3/23/2006 3:06PM - in reply to info. Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I am in base training right now, running 65-75 miles w/out much track work. By "infos" idea, I should be able to run a decent PR before I begin my "Pre-Comp" phase at the end of next month. I just might give that theory a test! (Caveat: I ran my PR while running about 20mpw and lots of sprint training). Should be interesting, and easy enough to test!
800m101
RE: Best 800m training, sprint training or endurance - for sub 2.10 3/23/2006 3:58PM - in reply to 800 guy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
i am also doing base and at the moment i am doing about 35-50 miles. I am doing tempo's, long runs, fartlek runs for an hour and 7x1km with a 500m jog recovery.
Is this fine for now? or should i also add in some sprinting?
800 guy
RE: Best 800m training, sprint training or endurance - for sub 2.10 3/23/2006 4:06PM - in reply to 800m101 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

800m101 wrote:

i am also doing base and at the moment i am doing about 35-50 miles. I am doing tempo's, long runs, fartlek runs for an hour and 7x1km with a 500m jog recovery.
Is this fine for now? or should i also add in some sprinting?


I'm doing about the same thing, plus a lot of drills and strides (i.e. 10x100 w/2 min. recovery). I spread the whole load out over a two week period (especially the fartlek/interval stuff) to avoid overdoing it. So alternate days are easy miles (i.e. 6-8-ish slow-med.) and then some sort of faster running (i.e. tempo followed by some drills/strides for 10-12 miles total). No one session is exhausting, the main thing being to build up endurance for the next phase, Every fourth week is a "quality" week where I drop down to 45-55, with a day off, some very easy days, and some faster efforts thrown in. Keeps things from getting in a rut.
base is the key to success
RE: Best 800m training, sprint training or endurance - for sub 2.10 3/23/2006 5:38PM - in reply to 800 guy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I am an 800 meter runner who PR'ed off of 30 mpw and no real speed training this past winter. I did lots of strength and hill work -- 800 meter repeats on the track, tempo runs, and lots of hill repeats. I ran a 3 second PR in the 800 doing nothing shorter than a 400m repeat in practice. (I also live in New England where it is difficult to train outdoors in the winter.)

I am also doing base training right now -- 40-45 mpw, lots of long intervals, a medium long run,and a long run. I am looking to peak in May / June. My coach had me start doing 5 x 100 meter strides with a 25 second recovery both before and after workouts (twice per week) weather permitting. I also do drills and short but fast strides / form work 4 days per week, and I lift twice per week.

I found that doing the longer stuff made me strong. I actually almost hit my 400 PR indoors off of no speedwork and my PR is pretty decent for an 800 runner. What I've found is that unless you are blessed with elite level 400 speed, you have to be strong enough to hold the pace you want for the entire 800. Otherwise you will just die after 600, which I've done and it's not fun....