van aaken

Yes, I would guess that we were hitting about that distance. He was always afraid that we would push the pace if we knew how far we were running- many runners I know run the same course and sooner or later they are off at a landmark or the final time and they freak. This is just the opposite of Gerry Lingden who used to tell us that he would run a ten (10) mile course and try to beat each individual landmark previous time. So we ran for time - an hour run is an hour run- I would guess that most of it was about 5:00 (per km- 8:00 per mile). He also thought we should fast prior to long races. Remember that fasting is giving your body a rest- first meal of the day is called BREAK FAST. Doing it in practice was more for your mind than your body. By developing stage (my term not his) this did not include any races or strides, long tempo's etc. He was always looking long term (healthy the rest of your 100+ years of life) not just an upcoming race.

I reckoned that it was approximately 40k per day rather than an exact mileage (kilometerage?) figure. Did that volume go down at all when the racing, striding, and long tempos started?

Vladimir - thank you for all this. Do you still train this way? Did you ever end up making any modifications? Is there anything you would do differently in retrospect?

All the best.

Hi- Yes I did go to Philly Central.

I was Graduating class #247. I put 1988 on here because the majority of people wouldnt know the significance of the class number.

- Philip Passen

247

Just received an email from Marathon & Beyond. They plan to finally publish Skip's article on Dr van Aaken in the May/June issue.

I would have to dig out my diaries to be exact, but I am sure it did. I know he never felt that we had to make up workouts when we traveled to competition. Usually just got in a easy "wake up run"- about 60:00. Most days prior to a race would be a cut in volumne or perhaps some strides. He felt that strides were great as they kept you sharp and if done correctly (more rest than strides) they could do no harm.

Yes, I still try to train this way- however I have suffered a few injuries in recent years (stomach, hip and back) they have set me behind where I would like to be. Yes I did make a few changes- you know "trying to improve" on a system that works before. I think I would do almost everything the same (at least the same as scheduled not as I actually did). I never should have let my long run slide (time commitments) and would have run more on trails- now that I am getting back to that I am confident that things will improve (provided I can get away from my jinx of injuries). Note that in my mind these were not running injuries even if they may be considered so by some- stomach cancer-?????; hips- fractured while running (hit by a drunk driver); back - must be a basketball injury (fell on ice while walking to a basketball game).

Looking forward to reading it. Hopefully there is something that will either remind me of something or perhaps something totally new.

Bob Wildes wrote:

Just received an email from Marathon & Beyond. They plan to finally publish Skip's article on Dr van Aaken in the May/June issue.

Who's Skip?

My foul up. Should have said the article from HRE. I am looking forward to reading it too.

What I really wish is that I'd found you before I wrote it. I'm afraid you'll find a lot of mistakes. On the other hand, Willi van Aaken seemed to think it was ok.

Did you knoe Meinrad Nagele, Vladimir? I wondered what happened to him as the description of his training in 'The van Aaken Method' was pretty awesome.

The fasting dilemna for Americans. Sounds like a title to a new diet book, huh. Vladimir mentioned that the Doctor prescribed at least some of the fasts for reasons other than performance. The lowered bodyweight seems to be the foremost benefit of calorie restriction.

I believe this is a mental exercise as much if not more than a physical one. A man who came about sa close to maximizing his marathon time as possible was Tom Osler. Quarter mile speed of 1:04 and a marathon a bit over 2:29.

He said he often lost a pound a day while on a restricted diet. He agreed that that was probably not as wise as only dropping 1 or 2 pounds a week.

This weighs heavily ( no pun intended ) on my mind as I am attempting to go from 170 to 160 on or before 29 April 2006.

Every pound lost is the equivalent of 52 seconds in a 'thon according to Osler's tables.

I am always worried about the weight loss part of any training. You stated that you wanted to lose 10lbs by 29 April. That is less than a pound a week- does not seem like too much to lose, however how long have you been at 170? To lose a pound a week you will need to cut 500 calories a day. Being that if you eat about 2550 cal (170 x 15) you will remain the same (without running) all you will need to do is run 5 miles a day and it will workout. Hopefully if you are running a marathon in April you will be able to average more than that- I know that this is as simple as it comes, but that is all Dr Van Aaken taught- work = success; the more weight you carry the more work you are asking your body to do. I do not like blanket statements like "1 pound loss = :52 seconds" Tom may have felt that with him it was true- he was somewhat of a pioneer in looking at ways to improve without having the talent or making running your entire life- his booklet "conditioning of a distance running" was great.

I say this because if we take a top runner (<2:10) and he loses two pounds I do not think it will have the same effect as it would on another runner who is a little over his/her ideal weight. I have always looked more at 1 pound = 1 minute at 10k and 1 minute at 10k = 5 minutes at the marathon. This percent holds quite true when we look at the assocation between 10k times and the marathon. For example a 10k in 28:00 = 2:10 marathon; 27:00 = 2:05; 29:00 = 2:15; 30:00 = 2:20. I know for myself my best weight was 108-112. I once dropped to 101 and my times were up to 1.04% at the marathon distance it did not have a real effect upon my shorter distances. More important when I raced or (tried to at that weight) my recovery was not very quick. As George Sheenan used to say we are all an "experiment in one"

Very detailed and thought out post.

Of course the 52 seconds per pound would not be accurate for an elite who are already at their optimum weight.

I've been at 170 or thereabouts for 10 months. It should be relatively easy to lose 10 pounds in the time allotted. I just don't anticipate enjoying the process.

Dr. van Aaken was entirely correct in saying that many 'overweight' people have a weakness of will.

The experiment of one is a very true statement. I do feel that I learn much from reading authors like van Aaken, Lydiard, Osler, Steffny, etc. That and many of the Lets Run posters sometimes save me some uneccesary trial and error.

Off the weight loss topic, but still on Ernst Van Aaken - I've found training the Van Aaken workouts (pulled a few of them from his book) to be very calming. Also, I've noticed that niggling aches and pains will sometimes actually disappear and see to correct themselves during the run. Anyone else have this experience.

Cheers!

Yes, I was struggling with an ITB problem a month ago and happened to be reading his book at the time (due to this thread!) It encouraged me to continue running slowly while stretching and icing the injury. I seem to have come out of it just fine. Good stuff.

He was never a fan of letting an injured runner "rest" as a way of getting over the injury. He was inclined to have them do a session of 350 meters of jogging followed by 50 meters of walking until they'd gone 10-20km. I know that Jeff Johnson used to have his athletes do a similar sort of session when injured or badly in need of recovery. He'd have them do a 70 second jog followed by a 30 second walk.

But van Aaken, as a doctor practicing outside the US had a medical solution to injuries that we don't have here. Joan Ullyot, who is a doctor as well, told me that he gave patients an injection that he called the "Turbingen Bomb." I forget what all was in it, but I believe there were megadoses of vitamins, B and E, perhaps, and some anit-inflammatants and pain killers that are not available in the US.

I have done the 70-30 thing with some benefit at times.

I cannot speak in the first person about the "bomb" but resting was what we were assigned to do when we die. The duration of the running and walk ratio was varied by the injury and time. For most runners to walk during a run is a four (4) letter word. Someone brought up Tom Osler during this thread and he would mix walking and running in his long runs - I think the ratio was like :25 to :05. He felt that an individual could double his/her normal long run with this method. I think that Dr Van Aaken would look nicely on the Galloway Method of training, but not on useing it to that extent in races. One major problem is if you are not used to walking it can hurt almost as much as running. Another is the start up and slow down procedures. There was also nothing magic about the 350-50 (that just happened to be the distance around a track). We often did the same workout around a field (distance was ???). Another one he did for those that wanted to run track (800-1500) was to run on a futball field. They would run from the south/east corner to the north/west corner then walk to the north/east corner then run to the south/west corner and walk back to the start (south/east corner). Hope this makes sense (if not draw a field and label it). The distance would be about 180m with a 50m walk. This would usually be done after a nice warm up and at a very quick pace. It developed turnover and your ability to respond to another runner change of pace in competition. Sometimes they would have marks on the field and they would shift up at each one (I think there were three marks- that would be four (4) changes in pace). We distance runners did lots of the 350-50 in the days after a competition. This allowed him to make sure we were not going too fast and that our form did not become ragged. Where was Jeff Johnson coaching at when he did this?