140 miles per week.

haha yeah sure, and you probably think In_ithaca is bruce hyde dont you? .....god damnit it is.

JK is coach John Kellogg (sp?).

NIKE FREE ME: for your long runs, (20-22,etc), do you push it a little harder and use that as a workout or go 7-8 min pace only, or do you vary it? Thanks! oh, and keep up the good work. (this is one of the only threads worth reading on Letsrun in quite some time...)

Question . . . wrote:

...Please forgive me for being skeptical that you exist. 140 mpw in nike frees with no injures...

A small point to make...

Would you accept 100-120 miles a week in racing flats? Nike Marathoners? NB RC750? Brooks T4? I've been training in racing flats for 5 years with no injuries routinely getting up to 100-120 with a high of 140. Shoes and mileage don't cause injuries.

Alan

Question . . . wrote:

140 mpw in nike frees with no injures and monster personal records seems too much like a letsrun fantasy for me to take seriously, especially when there is no evidence.

I personally know someone that has run 100-150mi/wk consistently in the Puma H-Streets.

It's not that hard.

no, I've just been up to 90-100 in those shoes (or similar ones)

Runningart2004 wrote:

A small point to make...

Would you accept 100-120 miles a week in racing flats? Nike Marathoners? NB RC750? Brooks T4? I've been training in racing flats for 5 years with no injuries routinely getting up to 100-120 with a high of 140. Shoes and mileage don't cause injuries.

Alan

I didn't mean to imply that running in flats causes injuries, only that the nike free training taken TOGETHER with the other claims sounds highly dubious (it's just too close to the average letsrun poster fantasy to be real). Training full time in flats can certainly be done -- and I'll admit, may be beneficial -- but it seems to me that guys like you Alan are exceptional, not normal. The vast majority of elite-level runners who remain healthy wear standard training shoes as far as I can tell.

Question . . . wrote:

I didn't mean to imply that running in flats causes injuries, only that the nike free training taken TOGETHER with the other claims sounds highly dubious (it's just too close to the average letsrun poster fantasy to be real). Training full time in flats can certainly be done -- and I'll admit, may be beneficial -- but it seems to me that guys like you Alan are exceptional, not normal. The vast majority of elite-level runners who remain healthy wear standard training shoes as far as I can tell.

They do -- and they get hurt just the same.

Oh crap look what you guys have done you drug trackhead into this. Now it's an all minimialist conversation all the time. That's all he can talk about. Please don't ruin a good thread.

Exactly. Shoes aren't going to change your injury rate unless you are severe overpronator.

Alan

although i use trainers, i can say that high mileage will certainly expose your weaknesses, so it's best to make your legs as strong as possible. one podiatrist told me it is impossible to weaken your feet by supporting them, but i must say this is untrue based on personal experience. also, it is easier to wear spikes and flats for short races even if you aren't accustomed to them. it is a risk, but not as much of a risk as throwing on flats for a marathon without doing any substantial mileage in them. lydiard was correct in stating that we should race what we train in. it is interesting to hear of people that have gone against the grain and found a path to running with less injury.

fair enough, please continue with the training discussion.

Although there seems to be some wierd feelings about asking NIKE FREE ME to say who he is, I agree that I am a little skeptic. If he's legit, he's given great advice that I really appreciate. If not, that really blows. So I second the motion. Are you an American? If so, why can't we find someone with your record?

Thanks.

Who cares? I've done almost exactly what he outlined and have had documented success. It sounds like, if anything, he's kept his mileage up much more consistently than i have. My year is periodized a lot more and when i am really racing my mileage drops big time.

Ithaca-

If one were planning to throw caution to the wind and join the club of 140mpw guys, would you recommend using the Nike Free all the time, and if so, should one build up to the high mileage before switching over, or should the aspiring Mr. Robot switch over to the Frees right away?

Thanks.

The only real advice i can give you guys is that with running you have to make a fundamental decision. Am I willing to take this thing all the way or am I going to play it safe and hope for the best. I'm not sure how to explain this any better but its really a complete shift in mindset. I decided to throw caution to the wind and take a shot. Is it the safest thing in the world to just start running 120+ mpw? NO! If you want to be safe, increase your mileage ten percent every year and maybe by the time you are 50 youll be running at your highest level.

You have to take chances in this life if you ever want to achieve something truly great. I felt that running might be my best shot to achieve something and I took on a very Once a Runner esque training routine. It sucks, I hate running 140mpw, i think its possibly the least healthy thing i could do to my body. When training, I become a truly morbid person who is not fun to be around. But I do it, day in day out, because there is a small beam of light at the end of the tunnel and I know that i must. After finally having a true breakthrough can I say that it was all worth it? yes without a doubt. I mean just the girls Ive gotten from running fast alone make it worth it...just kidding. But seriously, I don't disagree with the people that say this isn't the best way to achieve success. In fact, the cost benefit associated with this type of training might be too much. There are vast diminishing returns beyond a certain point. That being said, after a good period of training, when i step on a starting line I know that I have done more work than anyone else in the field. That doesn't mean I'll win, but I always think i have a shot.

well said.

In_Ithaca: what is your injury record? I've had a few stress fractures training much less than you, and was wondering if you think it will be worth it for me to take another shot at higher mileage. I'm currently a contender for my school's top-seven in the distance events, and I'd obviously rather have a 70% chance of making the travel squad than be injured again (0% chance of making the travel squad). On the other hand, I really want to go for it to find out how good I can be. Any of you high mileage guys have stress fractures early on then cease getting injured? My body feels like it can handle a lot more volume, but I fear for my bones -- my last two stress fractures were sudden-onset (felt nothing one step, but then after the next I couldn't walk and the MRI showed grade-3).

there is a lot of talk on here about injury and stress fractures. one point by NIKE FREE ME was that he gets his miles in on soft surfaces. this has to help to aviod injury. i know some people's bodies just cant handle it and will break down, but keeping on soft surfaces will give you much better odds on making it through.

This is an interesting topic...I'm also wondering if anyone who has had a stress fracture has been able to come back and get his mileage into the 100+ range.