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AVBART
RE: 140 miles per week. 12/14/2005 3:58PM - in reply to former div1 runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
former div1 runner,

The best coach I ever trained under believed in listening to the body. This is something we follow religiously even though he isn't our coach anymore. When my teammate and I did this, we didn't say in the beginning of the week "we are GOING to run 140," it just so happened that at no point during the week were we hurting. We ate a ton of food, slept a bunch, ran on grass and dirt for probably 100 miles, and on snow for 14 so we weren't pounding our legs on concrete every run. Speaking for myself, I had an IT band injury that kept me out from dec 12th of 04 until March 15th of 05 - At that point I was not listening to my body - getting an extra 2 miles to reach 90 was more important than stopping at 88, calling it a day and being able to train again the next day. There is a fine line between training to train and training to race. There is also a fine line between doing just "enough" and doing everything in your power to reach your potential.

On top of running on soft stuff, stretching was a major key. I was a bit skeptical of stretching as there are many conflicting ideas about it, but after that week, I swear by it. There was no run that my legs felt shitty on which I couldn't believe, however, when we were doing workouts during cross and I wasn't stretching, maintenance days were often a literal pain in the ass. I also swear by endurox, whether or not it works physiologically I haven't the faintest clue, but I believe it does and that's good enough for me.

Finally, strides made life easier too. Doing 4-6 after a run made the pace of the next run seem so easy, then by the end of each run, we were just vibing and not thinking.

There were only a few people on our team that knew what we were doing (all low mileage guys) this, and they usually give us flack for running a bunch, but they were behind what we were doing, and that made it cool too.

I have never posted on this board before, but I read nearly everything thats on it, and when I saw this topic, I thought my experience of running 140 would be useful - to let others know that it is possible to run that much, and do it intelligently. Whether or not it works we will see, but at least we know there was no stone unturned. No excuses No regrets...

Previous 2 weeks before 140 were:

80 - IC4A XC meet at vanny
114 - Local Turkey Trot 8k, strides, No workouts
140 - Progressions and strides
95 - With a fartlek and one track workout 3x(200,400,200)
95? - this week should be 95 ish - 2 workouts, 5 x k with 400 jog in 2:55, 10x 300 w 100 rec (tomorrow)

AV
NIKE FREE ME
RE: 140 miles per week. 12/14/2005 4:14PM - in reply to Clayton Bigsby Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I have run a few times over 140, but when I made my biggest breakthroughs was after I averaged 120-130 for the over 6 months over the winter time after an average XC season. When I started this I wasn't a bad runner, but not where I wanted to be. I was a 4:06 15 guy, and 8:45 3ker, 15:06 5ker. I felt like it was a time to really take a chance w/my running, i didnt want to ever say what if i did more?

I ran doubles everyday, with the average pace spot on to 7:30-8, no slower no faster. but then for 4-5 times a weeks I'd run 60-75 min progression runs based soley on feel. I'd start out at about 8 min pace for 15 min or so, then about every 3-4 min or so i'd drop the pace the better i felt. by the end i'd go till I felt like i was flying as fast as I could without breathing hard or feeling like I was laboring much. i'd aim for the last 7 min or so to end on the track and run a few laps and then time my last mile. after a few weeks my times for that mile started to drop, and it would feel the same effort. started out barely being able to break 5 min, to running 4:35 w/out loosing breath. I really would only finish on the track once, maybe twice a week to keep just to remind myself that i was still in shape.

after just three months I raced while running about 125 a week, still only doing progression runs and sprint strides as my only workouts. I ended up that winter running semi-big p.r.'s of 8:28, 14:48 but still felt tierd and out of shape while Iw as doing it. I continued to focus on each week. didn't stray much and by the end of outdoor I ended up running 3:52 for the 15, 14:12 for 5k and this past Xc season i ran well over 80 seconds faster on each course i ran on than the previous year. as wierd as it sounds i felt like my speed over the shorter distances was the one thing that was most effected when all was sound in done, hence the major drop in my 1500 time. in the spring I did lower my mileage thou, as i attempted to hover right at the 100mile mark for each week while tapering for almost each race. I did feel flat around may thou, but prolly because of a lack of a REAL tappering plan. In the summer I just did the same thing as before all the way through xc running 4-6 prog runs a weeks at about 135 average. I still feel as though my times will drop, but i suppose time will only tell. my first indoor race is just around the corner.

but i really feel the major key about the mileage is how EASY i was runnign when i was not doing prog runs. YES the prog runs would be sporatic and i would deciede while iw as doing them if in fact i was going to really do it or not, but on easy runs i would stay right around 8 minutes for the whole time.

Some call this "junk mileage" but i feel like the only junk miles are the ones done slower than my threshold, but yet TOO FAST to recover from fully over the high mileage distance. after all they are called easy runs for a reason. If i ran my easy runs at like 6:30 pace or faster as some say a 14:12 guy should be, then i would feel as though im too tierd on my hard days and wouldn't be able to run a 4:30 last mile on a 10-12 mile progression run. thus if the high end speed outcome is compromissed, so too is most of the workout, resulting in me being over tired and over a few months a little bit slower than i would else have been.

My 2 cents, for a loser college kid who does nothing but run and think about running his next run. Not gunna lie, when you run this much it makes you feel like a robot, it reminds me of that scene in fight club when he says "once you start fighting (or running 130-140mpw)everything else seems to have the volume turned down around you." that is what my life has become...
Pom Pom
RE: 140 miles per week. 12/14/2005 4:22PM - in reply to Evil Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Not a huge difference, but definitely noticeable and worthwhile. Just make sure every run (probably no fewer than 10) has a purpose.

Evil Steve?
4 rules to dating my runner
RE: 140 miles per week. 12/14/2005 4:22PM - in reply to NIKE FREE ME Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
My four rules that have led me to success!
----------------------------------------
1. Don't lift weights

b. don't ever stretch

3. eat only two meals a day, plus a snack of 3-5 beers each night for carb purposes only

4. run 18-22 miles a day
pussy eater
RE: 140 miles per week. 12/14/2005 4:24PM - in reply to 4 rules to dating my runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
youre retarded if you want to run 140 a week for a 10k.

alot of top marathon runners only go 120-130.

youre an idiot, i hope you break your leg and never run again
Good stuff
RE: 140 miles per week. 12/14/2005 4:43PM - in reply to NIKE FREE ME Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

NIKE FREE ME wrote:

I have run a few times over 140, but when I made my biggest breakthroughs was after I averaged 120-130 for the over 6 months over the winter time after an average XC season. When I started this I wasn't a bad runner, but not where I wanted to be. I was a 4:06 15 guy, and 8:45 3ker, 15:06 5ker. I felt like it was a time to really take a chance w/my running, i didnt want to ever say what if i did more?

I ran doubles everyday, with the average pace spot on to 7:30-8, no slower no faster. but then for 4-5 times a weeks I'd run 60-75 min progression runs based soley on feel. I'd start out at about 8 min pace for 15 min or so, then about every 3-4 min or so i'd drop the pace the better i felt. by the end i'd go till I felt like i was flying as fast as I could without breathing hard or feeling like I was laboring much. i'd aim for the last 7 min or so to end on the track and run a few laps and then time my last mile. after a few weeks my times for that mile started to drop, and it would feel the same effort. started out barely being able to break 5 min, to running 4:35 w/out loosing breath. I really would only finish on the track once, maybe twice a week to keep just to remind myself that i was still in shape.

after just three months I raced while running about 125 a week, still only doing progression runs and sprint strides as my only workouts. I ended up that winter running semi-big p.r.'s of 8:28, 14:48 but still felt tierd and out of shape while Iw as doing it. I continued to focus on each week. didn't stray much and by the end of outdoor I ended up running 3:52 for the 15, 14:12 for 5k and this past Xc season i ran well over 80 seconds faster on each course i ran on than the previous year. as wierd as it sounds i felt like my speed over the shorter distances was the one thing that was most effected when all was sound in done, hence the major drop in my 1500 time. in the spring I did lower my mileage thou, as i attempted to hover right at the 100mile mark for each week while tapering for almost each race. I did feel flat around may thou, but prolly because of a lack of a REAL tappering plan. In the summer I just did the same thing as before all the way through xc running 4-6 prog runs a weeks at about 135 average. I still feel as though my times will drop, but i suppose time will only tell. my first indoor race is just around the corner.

but i really feel the major key about the mileage is how EASY i was runnign when i was not doing prog runs. YES the prog runs would be sporatic and i would deciede while iw as doing them if in fact i was going to really do it or not, but on easy runs i would stay right around 8 minutes for the whole time.

Some call this "junk mileage" but i feel like the only junk miles are the ones done slower than my threshold, but yet TOO FAST to recover from fully over the high mileage distance. after all they are called easy runs for a reason. If i ran my easy runs at like 6:30 pace or faster as some say a 14:12 guy should be, then i would feel as though im too tierd on my hard days and wouldn't be able to run a 4:30 last mile on a 10-12 mile progression run. thus if the high end speed outcome is compromissed, so too is most of the workout, resulting in me being over tired and over a few months a little bit slower than i would else have been.

My 2 cents, for a loser college kid who does nothing but run and think about running his next run. Not gunna lie, when you run this much it makes you feel like a robot, it reminds me of that scene in fight club when he says "once you start fighting (or running 130-140mpw)everything else seems to have the volume turned down around you." that is what my life has become...
Good post.

I agree strongly about the pace of easy runs. The operative word is "easy."

Too many people, conned into believing idiots on Letsrun.com, think the best way to train is 100 miles per week at 5:50 pace. If I wanted to, I could do every run at 6:00-6:30 pace (I used to do just that). But like you, I slowed things way down over 8:00 most days and have felt much better for the harder workouts. The pace on easy days is meaningless, despite what malmo might say. It's easy; the effort is all that matters.
HRE
RE: 140 miles per week. 12/14/2005 6:06PM - in reply to big dan Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

big dan wrote:

ok hre you did the miles ect but what did u run in races?
thats alot of time and effort.hope it was worth it.
Also just a point but a teacher seems to be a good job to do as a runner with the summer off.



Nothing spectacular. But I went from a 4:34 marathon to a 2:35, a 48 plus 6 mile to a 32:20 10k. It was absolutely worth it. I loved every minute of it and teaching did fit well with it all.
sounds like effrium
RE: 140 miles per week. 12/14/2005 8:36PM - in reply to Good stuff Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Good stuff wrote:


NIKE FREE ME wrote:

I have run a few times over 140, but when I made my biggest breakthroughs was after I averaged 120-130 for the over 6 months over the winter time after an average XC season. When I started this I wasn't a bad runner, but not where I wanted to be. I was a 4:06 15 guy, and 8:45 3ker, 15:06 5ker. I felt like it was a time to really take a chance w/my running, i didnt want to ever say what if i did more?

I ran doubles everyday, with the average pace spot on to 7:30-8, no slower no faster. but then for 4-5 times a weeks I'd run 60-75 min progression runs based soley on feel. I'd start out at about 8 min pace for 15 min or so, then about every 3-4 min or so i'd drop the pace the better i felt. by the end i'd go till I felt like i was flying as fast as I could without breathing hard or feeling like I was laboring much. i'd aim for the last 7 min or so to end on the track and run a few laps and then time my last mile. after a few weeks my times for that mile started to drop, and it would feel the same effort. started out barely being able to break 5 min, to running 4:35 w/out loosing breath. I really would only finish on the track once, maybe twice a week to keep just to remind myself that i was still in shape.

after just three months I raced while running about 125 a week, still only doing progression runs and sprint strides as my only workouts. I ended up that winter running semi-big p.r.'s of 8:28, 14:48 but still felt tierd and out of shape while Iw as doing it. I continued to focus on each week. didn't stray much and by the end of outdoor I ended up running 3:52 for the 15, 14:12 for 5k and this past Xc season i ran well over 80 seconds faster on each course i ran on than the previous year. as wierd as it sounds i felt like my speed over the shorter distances was the one thing that was most effected when all was sound in done, hence the major drop in my 1500 time. in the spring I did lower my mileage thou, as i attempted to hover right at the 100mile mark for each week while tapering for almost each race. I did feel flat around may thou, but prolly because of a lack of a REAL tappering plan. In the summer I just did the same thing as before all the way through xc running 4-6 prog runs a weeks at about 135 average. I still feel as though my times will drop, but i suppose time will only tell. my first indoor race is just around the corner.

but i really feel the major key about the mileage is how EASY i was runnign when i was not doing prog runs. YES the prog runs would be sporatic and i would deciede while iw as doing them if in fact i was going to really do it or not, but on easy runs i would stay right around 8 minutes for the whole time.

Some call this "junk mileage" but i feel like the only junk miles are the ones done slower than my threshold, but yet TOO FAST to recover from fully over the high mileage distance. after all they are called easy runs for a reason. If i ran my easy runs at like 6:30 pace or faster as some say a 14:12 guy should be, then i would feel as though im too tierd on my hard days and wouldn't be able to run a 4:30 last mile on a 10-12 mile progression run. thus if the high end speed outcome is compromissed, so too is most of the workout, resulting in me being over tired and over a few months a little bit slower than i would else have been.

My 2 cents, for a loser college kid who does nothing but run and think about running his next run. Not gunna lie, when you run this much it makes you feel like a robot, it reminds me of that scene in fight club when he says "once you start fighting (or running 130-140mpw)everything else seems to have the volume turned down around you." that is what my life has become...
Good post.

I agree strongly about the pace of easy runs. The operative word is "easy."

Too many people, conned into believing idiots on Letsrun.com, think the best way to train is 100 miles per week at 5:50 pace. If I wanted to, I could do every run at 6:00-6:30 pace (I used to do just that). But like you, I slowed things way down over 8:00 most days and have felt much better for the harder workouts. The pace on easy days is meaningless, despite what malmo might say. It's easy; the effort is all that matters.



this all sounds alot like the JK articles. they are great pieces of literature that all young runners should read. And it is interesting to note the effect his program did have on speed, a la Bruce Hyde- an emphisis on progression runs and high SLOW miles and he cut 12+ seconds off his mile time...HIS MILE TIME in less than a year. not to mention what else it does for 10K runners, like wejo's 2 minute 10k pr.

alot of it all does have to do with feel.

Can anyone post that Jk article case study of bruce hyde? i remember reading it a year ago or so. but good stuff about how he could feel his exact threshold and the benifits of be able to do so...
oily
RE: 140 miles per week. 12/14/2005 9:04PM - in reply to sounds like effrium Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I once ran 37 miles in a week. NO THANKS - I was hurting the next week. From now on, 20 is my limit.
DublAK2
RE: 140 miles per week. 12/14/2005 9:09PM - in reply to NIKE FREE ME Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
don't see my post so once again I will ask if there are off days incorporated into this?
jerry K
RE: 140 miles per week. 12/15/2005 7:39AM - in reply to DublAK2 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
off days? if you do things right (i.e. go easy on your freakin easy days dummy!) then you dont need any days off.

think for a moment....

why do you need days off once you are in shape?

wouldnt have to happen if you took rest days on the pace, not the distance.
DublAK2
RE: 140 miles per week. 12/15/2005 7:46AM - in reply to jerry K Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
yeah but even running slow puts pounding on your legs. How do you prevent stress fractures at 140 miles a weak. I got one doing 80
Whoopee
RE: 140 miles per week. 12/15/2005 7:57AM - in reply to oily Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I ran 161 miles last week. While going to class every day.
NIKE FREE ME
RE: 140 miles per week. 12/15/2005 8:00AM - in reply to DublAK2 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
dont run on tar until you are used to the mileage, i ran almost every mile on grass or dirt paths for the first 3-4 months, but now, some year later, i can run 130 on tar if i wanted to and no real difference in any knee or ankle swelling.

I really think my key to staying healthy now is the fact that i wear only nike frees. I know a lot of people will jump on me for saying it, but who cares. i do. they are comfy and unlike other shoes at 90mpw, i can wear the frees for 145(my highest week, reached 5 times) and not a single ache in my legs at all.

I have 3-5 pairs at one time and rotate them. i really feel like they allow me to run in my natural motion and strengthend my legs to take on the miles better. after 12 months of 130mpw in nothing but nike frees i feel like i could run a 100-miler barefooted. minimalism man, go back to what is natural for your body's motion and you'd be surprised what your legs will handle. I know im no science-a-tition hurr, im just saying what has worked for me, and I'll thank the high miles for my drop in times and my nike frees for staying injury free.

also i just recently picked up a few pairs of the free trials, not a big fan. a lot more stiff, more of a real shoe feel. but they are warmer for the winter time.

this may just be what works for me. i am well aware that i might be a freak...but im not a pussy either. take what you will.
these guys are so lame
RE: 140 miles per week. 12/15/2005 8:03AM - in reply to NIKE FREE ME Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
you are the man.

GAME OVER.
bubba1
RE: 140 miles per week. 12/15/2005 8:06AM - in reply to NIKE FREE ME Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
what I want to know is what year were you when you ran 4:05, 8:45, 15:06? If it was your frosh year, your jumps are obviously fantastic, but not quite the same if it was your junior year going into your senior year.
NIKE FREE ME
RE: 140 miles per week. 12/15/2005 8:16AM - in reply to bubba1 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

bubba1 wrote:

what I want to know is what year were you when you ran 4:05, 8:45, 15:06? If it was your frosh year, your jumps are obviously fantastic, but not quite the same if it was your junior year going into your senior year.


im a JR now, so my major drops were from freshman year (20 years old) to end of soph year (21). now im in the middle of my jr year.

and to be honest. im not the man...im very much a loser w/no life. i am aware of this, as i am sure so are all of you.
NIKE FREE ME
RE: 140 miles per week. 12/15/2005 8:17AM - in reply to NIKE FREE ME Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
should say 19, and 20...im 21 now.
MarathonMind
RE: 140 miles per week. 12/15/2005 8:52AM - in reply to Good stuff Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I'd just like to add that doing 140 MPW is in itself an accomplishment, and to be able to string together a series of weeks at this high level of volume is testament to the fact that you did it right.
I believe at this level of volume a fast pace should be the furthest thing from your mind, and in fact I frequently hear that you will naturally run the pace you can handle anyways.

If you are not injured and are getting faster then you are doing it right.
NIKE FREE ME
RE: 140 miles per week. 12/15/2005 9:56AM - in reply to MarathonMind Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I was just wondering as to why it effected my mile speed so greatly, not just a little bit. To be honest i always thought that i would be able to run low 14's, but never did I believe I would be able to run -4:10 off no real traditional speed workouts, you know? Is this similar to what a previous posted said about bruce hide? granted he is alot faster than me, am I to understand that he had a large improvement in leg speed as well. it really reminds me of a peter snell type deal, it just doesnt make sense to me, i just can atest that it works for some wierd reason for all distances, not just the up guys.
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