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chuy
Marathon taper: 2 or 3 weeks? 11/24/2005 8:59AM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I was wondering what would be the best way to taper for 2:20-2:25 type marathoner running 100 miles a week or more. would they need a longer, gradual 3 week taper of weeks like 85, 70, 55 because the mileage was so high for so long, or would it be better to only taper 2 weeks, maybe something like 80 then 60, so they dont begin to lose the aerobic fitness built?
Chewy
RE: Marathon taper: 2 or 3 weeks? 11/24/2005 9:30AM - in reply to chuy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I'm also interested in this same query.

Productive replies are appreciated.
New here?
RE: Marathon taper: 2 or 3 weeks? 11/24/2005 9:38AM - in reply to Chewy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Chewy wrote:

Productive replies are appreciated.


That's cute.
Hmmmm....
RE: Marathon taper: 2 or 3 weeks? 11/24/2005 9:58AM - in reply to New here? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I have coached a number of national level marathoners and it has varied for each. you need to find what works best for you. Typically we have done our last LONG run about 14-18 days out and tapered down from there, continuing our normal training pattern. One thing we have also done is NOT take the day before off, but run 15min or so on that day in order to maintain the stimulus to maintain body water, but take a day off 2 days out (IE - race on Saturday, then Off on Thurs).

Bottom line is test with mini tapers, see how you feel. Try a half with a similar taper pattern and see how it goes.
Nobby
RE: Marathon taper: 2 or 3 weeks? 11/24/2005 9:59AM - in reply to chuy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I don't think you'd lose your aerobic base in 2 or 3 weeks if you'd been running over 100MPW. Marathon taper should begin anywhere from 2 to 4 weeks depending on the individual and how he/she feels most comfortable with. Seko used to do some crazy training like 40k tempo 4 weeks before, 30k tempo 3 weeks before and 20k tempo 2 weeks before. On the other hand, other teammate of his would do just 30k tempo 3 weeks and come just right. So it's very much individual matter. I'd say 3 weeks is a good general taper with the final long run/long tempo run being run; medium long run at easy pace 2 weeks before and either 5k to 10k tempo or race run a week before as a sharpening. Most Japanese like to do something like 2000m at good rhythm the day before or 3 days before the race. Not necessarily all out but at a good tempo.
Veteran
RE: Marathon taper: 2 or 3 weeks? 11/24/2005 5:57PM - in reply to chuy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I've run a dozen and although my mileage isn't quite that high, I usually average about 75 mpw preparing. I've had better success with a 2 week taper than 3 weeks. I still do some quality stuff in those last 2 weeks, but by that I mean MP for about 20% of my mileage. A typical taper, coming off 75 miles is 50 2 weeks out and about 20 the week of the race. One MP run the week (about 5 days out) of 4 to 5 miles.
But you may want to adjust those distances based on where you are coming down from.
just one lone voice
RE: Marathon taper: 2 or 3 weeks? 11/25/2005 8:13AM - in reply to Veteran Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Personally, I go with 2 weeks. I've found 3 weeks to be too much and 4 is just insane. I do the last long run 14 days before, then start to ease up on mileage. I maintain tempo runs (somewhat shorter) and strides during the taper. Too long or abrubt of a taper makes me feel sluggish.
MarathonMind
RE: Marathon taper: 2 or 3 weeks? 11/25/2005 5:14PM - in reply to Hmmmm.... Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Sounds like 2 1/ 2 weeks is optimum then, and this would make sense based on the bulk of what I have read on this.
The Seko schedule also sounds like similar tapers I have seen that step down the long runs from 24 to 18 to 12 one week out.
Whirrrr
RE: Marathon taper: 2 or 3 weeks? 11/25/2005 5:38PM - in reply to MarathonMind Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
2 weeks tops. any more than that and you lose fitness....this is provided you are not over trained to begin with.
JimG
RE: Marathon taper: 2 or 3 weeks? 11/25/2005 6:49PM - in reply to Whirrrr Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Hansons use a 2 wk taper, and not all that drastic. They feel any big change screws up your body, like sleeping an extra 2-3 hrs one day you feel sluggish.
greg
RE: Marathon taper: 2 or 3 weeks? 11/25/2005 8:03PM - in reply to JimG Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Agreed, huge tapers are overrated and just mess with your body. If everying is going good, nothing magical is going to happen if you cut out a huge chunk of mileage. That said, 2 weeks of slight reduction is probably a good idea to rest up, but don't over do it.
nippon marathon
RE: Marathon taper: 2 or 3 weeks? 11/25/2005 11:40PM - in reply to greg Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
10-14 days works for me. Think this is individual and something learned upon experience. What works for you. I feel lethargic if go any longer than this. It isn't a major taper either. 80 2 weeks out, then 50-60 the marathon week.
HHH
RE: Marathon taper: 2 or 3 weeks? 11/26/2005 12:45AM - in reply to Hmmmm.... Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Gotta agree with Hmmmm. I have done my last long run the Thursday before the marathon (assuming it's on a Sunday). I also like to take the 2 days before off and then do some easy running the day before. In the final 5 weeks I like to have each week get progressively easier in terms of mileage so it might look something like: 160km, 140km, 120km, 100km and then 80km or so including the race. It's worked for me so far but I am no superstar.
Snatch
RE: Marathon taper: 2 or 3 weeks? 11/26/2005 2:13AM - in reply to chuy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I have run a few And find that it varies a little for Me.
If I have a lot of travelling to do I find a shorter taper seems better.By a lot of travelling I mean Australia to the U.s. or similar.I think that this may be mental.
When travelling to a unique or Distant country it is easy to slip into Vacation or Holiday mode.By having a shorter taper this is less likely to occur.Arriving at the destination too early can have the same adverse effect.
For local Marathons I find 2 to 3 weeks is fine for me.
I believe it is more a confidence thing than a reality.
If you believe that a 3 week(or longer) taper will adversely affect your performance then it probably will.
My best Marathons Have been close to home with a 14-18 day taper.
What you are comfortable with is the most important aspect.
blhababab
RE: Marathon taper: 2 or 3 weeks? 11/26/2005 5:51AM - in reply to Snatch Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
three comments to add:

1) anything you do within 10 days of the race won't help you physiologically. it takes about that long for your body to respond to the stimulus. so the trick is to just keep your body from shutting down. i think pfitzinger had an article about this in RT recently -- unfortunately can't remember the details of the taper he was suggesting, maybe someone else does.

2) agree completely on not taking the day before off -- again, your body takes a while to adjust to things and you actually won't be anymore rested by taking the day before off, take the day two days before off

3) another thing to look at (depending on how you react psychologically to a taper) is to keep the mileage a little bit higher, but drop the intensity -- down from two to three workouts a week to one, or something like that. maintains your aerobic fitness but will still leave you feeling rested on the day.
jumpingbean
RE: Marathon taper: 2 or 3 weeks? 11/26/2005 7:23AM - in reply to blhababab Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I think that alot of people feel sluggish if they do a 3 week taper especially if they are dropping the mileage too much. If you go from a 100 to 80 to 70 to 50 you will feel like crap. I think for a person doing 100 regularly 60-70 the week of the race will be just fine. So I would say a two week taper and don't drop the mileage below 60% of what you had been doing for the majority of the time. Many people also develop colds the week of a marathon because of tapering too much. Your body is used to a certain level of activity. When you decrease that level too much you trick your body into thinking it is sick. I don't have any studies to site. But I have seen this happen probably a hundred times qith people I have trained with and myself.
skuzzlebutt
RE: Marathon taper: 2 or 3 weeks? 11/26/2005 11:04PM - in reply to jumpingbean Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
ok this question is a little off the topic, but would it be ok to race a half marathon 3 weeks before a marathon, or is that too close?
Joseph McVeigh
RE: Marathon taper: 2 or 3 weeks? 11/27/2005 7:09AM - in reply to skuzzlebutt Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
If you can't recover from a halfmarathon race in 3 weeks, you're undertrained for the marathon.

And for what it's worth, I'm a 3 week taperer, from 90-105 mile weeks down to approximately 70-75mi, 50-60mi, and ~ 35mi the last 3 weeks.
3 weeks out -- last long run, 18-22 milee
2 weeks out -- 13-15 mile run, fairly easy
1 week out -- 10-12mi, easy
HHH
RE: Marathon taper: 2 or 3 weeks? 11/27/2005 9:35AM - in reply to skuzzlebutt Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I think you'd be fine, just train through it and use it as a hard long tempo.

skuzzlebutt wrote:

ok this question is a little off the topic, but would it be ok to race a half marathon 3 weeks before a marathon, or is that too close?
mr garrison
RE: Marathon taper: 2 or 3 weeks? 11/27/2005 7:20PM - in reply to skuzzlebutt Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

skuzzlebutt wrote:

ok this question is a little off the topic, but would it be ok to race a half marathon 3 weeks before a marathon, or is that too close?


I think any runner would be fine racing a half and then a marathon 3 weeks later. However, I dont think skuzzlebutt can run at all considering he has celery for an arm and patrick duffy as one of his legs.
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