It's called strategy!!!!
It's called strategy!!!!
One thing remains certain about the womens race: Kastor was clearly the best runner of the day!
Dita had the same pacers for as long as she could keep up. Had she followed Kastor for a few miles longer, Dita would have hit the wall harder than any other runner of the day. Kastor nearly lost it due to her high ambitions. A brave effort that sadly has not been given the respect it deserves.
Wejo thinks this was a fair win, but by critizising the "coaching" Kastor was given, he gets the idiots going on this board. I saw the race on tv. Kastor was the best. It`s that simple. She was a 2.19-runner trying to run 2.18 and dying.
I highly disagree...racing is about getting as close as possible to a 100% effort(which is not possible), haveing someone to offer encourgement, words of advice, position of other runners....is a mental aid of sorts...Particularly when you are dying...as it seems Deena was.
Dita DID NOT, seem to be dying as hard...there is doubt in my mind, as to whether she would have won therace without clint,...so the question of whether clints actions where on the up and up...is...merited.
Thank god the boards are back up I was afraid that we wouldn't be able to discuss this issue further. Afterall there has been nothing new to this discussion since page one.
I agree.
I disagree.
It is within the rules.
It is still unethical.
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
DITA WAS THE BEST.
Considering the race rules which say:"If any athlet will get any extra help from pacemakers (handling water bottles,looking back and disclosing info`s about who`s coming,what distance etc.)then that athlet should be disqualified.SO?Why the race director didn`t respect that simple rule?
Who ever was participating at the technical meeting knows this detail.Why nobody stand up and just say it?
FYI - from the RW article:
"At 20 miles, she asked Clint Verran, one of the race's escorts for the top female racers, if anyone was behind her. Verran looked back and told Kastor he couldn't see any other women in sight."
Greaat point. Only mentioned 30 times previously. Keep up the insightfulness.
sideways slim wrote:
FYI - from the RW article:
"At 20 miles, she asked Clint Verran, one of the race's escorts for the top female racers, if anyone was behind her. Verran looked back and told Kastor he couldn't see any other women in sight."
I could only find that comment mentioned 3 times within this thread. Still receiving a zero for originality.
sideways slim wrote:
FYI - from the RW article:
"At 20 miles, she asked Clint Verran, one of the race's escorts for the top female racers, if anyone was behind her. Verran looked back and told Kastor he couldn't see any other women in sight."
I could only find that comment mentioned 3 times within this thread. Still receiving a zero for originality.
Thanks for the warm welcome to the message boards, fellows! I'll be sure to read all 10 pages of your insightful comments before posting next time...
norwegian wrote:
One thing remains certain about the womens race: Kastor was clearly the best runner of the day!
Dita had the same pacers for as long as she could keep up. Had she followed Kastor for a few miles longer, Dita would have hit the wall harder than any other runner of the day. . . . Kastor was the best. It`s that simple. She was a 2.19-runner trying to run 2.18 and dying.
Dita had stomach problems that forced her to drop back for a few miles. That's all. She was nevertheless strong enough to make up the gap in the last several miles.
Kastor is not (and probably never will be) a 2:19 marathoner. She's an aided 2:21+ marathoner.
I actually have managed to read most of the 10 pages worth of posts (yes, I need to get a life), but couldn't resist out of frustration. I understand those that want to question pacing/rabbiting/assistance in general, but I am tired of reading the comments that Clint and Deena were "unethical." So I ask those so quick to accuse Deena of gaining an unfair advantage where do you draw the line?
Pacing ok for 20 miles, 22 miles? If Dita had won and her "pacer" stayed with her for the entire race would you be as outraged? Any rabbited race - definitely an advantage? Ever shared a water bottle with a competitor? Ever ran an XC race and looked back and told a teammate that so and so is 10 yards back? Do you think if two guys from Hanson's or another club are running a marathon together that one might take a look back at some point and share what he saw? Kenyans/Ethiopians using team tactics in XC - one guy sacrificing the for benefit of the team or a specific teammate?
Personally, I rarely see an elite race anymore where aid to some level isn't being provided. So, where do you draw the line? It just seems that too many bashers accept some forms of aid, but not others.
Oldguy. The alzheimers is setting in. You have already made your opinion clear. Maybe you forgot. Even if you post the same message several times it is still just your opinion. Thanks for the redundancy.
oldguy wrote:
Kastor is not (and probably never will be) a 2:19 marathoner. She's an aided 2:21+ marathoner.
How was Deena's AR performance "aided?"
Was Paul's WR aided? Was Tergat's WR aided? Was El G's WR's aided? Was Geb's WR's aided? Was Bekele's WR's aided?
From reading many of your posts, you seem like an old guy with an axe to grind.
You are right. An even better example was Colleen Deruck who set an american record at Chicago this weekend. She hired Kim Gilliard who ran every step with her. Check the results and all the splits and every picture that you can find.
where do you draw the line? wrote:
Was Paul's [sic] WR aided? Was Tergat's WR aided? Was El G's WR's aided? Was Geb's WR's aided? Was Bekele's WR's aided?
The answer to all of your questions is yes. Of course they were aided by pacemakers and human windbreaks. Do you disagree?
THEN THE RACE DIRECTOR SHOULD LET DITA KNOW THAT SHE IS ALLOWED TO HIRE A PACE MAKER...OR HAD HER HANSON GUY RUN THE ENTIRE RACE WITH HER AND NOT TO STOP AT 30K.
YOU GUYS ARE SO WIRED...WHY DON`T YOU JUST ACCEPT THE REALITY:DEENA WAS GETTING MORE HELP THEN DITA ...
Do you label every elite's pr's with "aided" or just Deena's? And how was her AR aided? Did you jump on letsrun after Bekele's 10,000 WR this summer and say that he was unfairly aided?
Where do YOU draw the line on aid?
I guess all my pr's are "aided," as they were set in races with runners faster than myself. I'm sure they helped me run a better time that day. Do you have any "aided" pr's?
I don't think my views are much different from those of a lot of people. I would respect a record that's set without pacemakers and windbreaks more than I would respect the same record set with pacemakers and windbreaks. Who wouldn't?
By the way, I didn't say that the use of pacemakers is "unfair." I do believe that the sport is better without them, however.
oldguy, we're on the same page.
The answer to your rhetorical question, 'Who wouldn't?' is sorta lost in a fog of rules, trends, basic competitive tenets & the blinding lights of new records. On many occasions I've spoken w/people whose opinions I value talk out of both sides of their mouths about pacing, paced records and the like. They say sometimes it's okay but are unable to tell me where they draw the line...a clear and distinct line.
Deena didn't need the help.