Don't you just love this purile type of discussion - :)
I'm an ex 17 minute guy, these days age has caught up and I run 20 on a good day -
Never seen myself as anything but a mid-packer, and these days as an "Enjoying" Runner. Most of my work colleagues see me as an Elite Runner, because I RUN!
Each to our own, and long may it continue.
JB
Plus it matters whether you are talking about an elite in a high school or university or international track race versus a community road race. It's relatively easy to shine in most road races when the same effort/talent would look like nothing special in a track or XC race where all the athletes are serious about running. The non-running public sees them as the same thing. I once won a road race by a minute and had people asking me if I was going to be on the Olympic team.
That's kind of funny! : )
If you don't post your times then, I can't respect anything you are saying.
You can into the argument and are now hiding.
That's bull crap.
This place always cracks me up. A bunch of 15 min guys who either a)say they suck or b) say everyone else sucks.
Here's the thing: it takes god given talent to run a 15:00 5k. I don't care how untalented you think you are, but you're faster than 99.99% of the population. I run with folks who are young, in good shape, run 60+ mpw, and can't break 18:00 for the 5k. They simply have no speed.
If I run 13:11 would you respect me more than if I ran 16:02?
Its all relative isn't it.
If you're 60 and your best 5 k is
20 minutes...and you run 18:59...you're
elite in your age group and ecstatic
that you've smashed your PR.
If you're 13 and your PR is 20 minutes
and you run 18:59...you're going to be
equally as pumped.
If you are 250 pounds and your PR is
20 minutes and you run 18:59...again,
you're going to be thrilled.
These examples would be elite runners
in their particular categories and they
should be as proud of their accomplishments
as the 20 year old sophomore that breaks
15 minutes for the first time and makes
7th man on the cross country team. Now he is
not as "elite" as the other examples I have
sited but likely feels just as pumped.
The irony is that if you're an Ethipian
20 year old and just broke 13:20 for the 5 k...
you're just number 25th in the country but
likely feel pissed that you're so freakin
slow.
Elitism is totally relative and 14:59 can be
a world record in some categories; ie: a 12
year old or a 60 year old. Should they feel
any less "elite" then the guy who breaks 13
minutes but fails to make the national team
because there are 3 guys in his country faster
then him? A PR is a PR...and the effort to
accomplish that is elite in that persons mind
an indeed should be.
This is my first post on the thread.
My opinion is that elite is the best of the best. If you're not running under 13:30 then you're not elite. The time is arbitrary but I think 13:30 is a pretty elite time anywhere. So a place like Kenya would have many more elite runners than somewhere like the US. But elite means you're elite compared to the rest of the world, and the 150th best kenyan is still elite probably.
I do not believe that elite is a relative term based on your age and what not. If you're a 16 minute 5ker at age 12 or a sub 30 10ker at age 55 then you're an amazing talent, but you're not elite. You're just amazing for your age. Elite should be a very tough term to be classified as, hence that's why you'd be ELITE because not many people are considered it. Average Joe running his pr is not elite. He may be a number of other adjectives but he's not elite.
That being said, I don't know many 15 minute guys who think they're elite. I ran mid 14's and people that I knew at my level are mostly huge fans of the sport, very knowledgeable. Knowledgeable enough to know that we are far from elite!
What's wrong with being consumed with the sport? Even if you suck. I'm consumed with everything I do and I don't do any of it even adequately.
They didn't broadcast the World Track Championships in the USA but you can watch poker around the clock. Even if you are elite only your Mom cares.
"I won't list my times. It's irrelevant to the subject. I have nothing to prove on a message board when it concerns my racing performances"
seems u do. are you one of those 15 min guys?
In this argument..YES!
That is the whole point!!!!
Well, basically that these guys are still quite full of themselves even though there are scads of runners there who could beat these guys' PR's in a session of repeat 5K's. There are women there who could tap dance all over these guys any day of the week, but they still exude some diety complex because they can regularly beat hobbyjoggers who do less than half of what they do in training at the local smuck races. They're condescending to slower runners while sniffing longingly and lustfully after the jocks of the local Americans who are faster than them.
here's an opinion wrote:
The time is arbitrary but I think 13:30 is a pretty elite time anywhere.
Possible exception the 5 Avenue Mile.
Everyone need to calm down, and realize the actual point of the thread.
The point is not whether 15mins is elite, but rather about the attitude and elitism. If you run sub 18, you are fast, the more sub-18 you are, the faster you become. There is no problem with having a bit of a running ego, but you also need to understand that your ego doesnt warrant being a dick just because someone can only run 21 mins or something. You have no clue what it took for that guy to get to 21 mins, or if they're doing it merely for fitness and fun and not for racing.
The real elites do not have this problem. They know that they are fast, and don't feel like they constantly need to prove it to themselves by bashing slower runners. They know that they can do their talking with their feet.
If I break 15 at this years race for the cure I'll probably win it and talk a lot of shit to everyone I know.
do single A ball players consider themselves elite
i think that relative to their sport these people are at the same level
its a tough one
No, my personal times are not relevant to this thread. The initial statement was considering why the 15 min. 5k category of runner often times considers themselves elites, often times looking down upon slower runners. You don't often see true elite runners look down on "slower" non elite runners, but you do often see 15 min. guys looking down on others. If you haven't experienced that then I think you're in a minority.And whats wrong with watching poker around the clock?
You have some ridiculous notion about how a person (runner in this case) should behave and carry themselves based upon their 5K time.
Hasn't it ever occurred to you that there are total and comlete assholes at every level of this sport, but more importantly, genuinely thoughtful and wonderful people at every level as well?
This is such a childish and negative observation; you've got to be in HS, but if not, you need to really do some thinking about how other people make you feel.
Not Elite wrote:
No, my personal times are not relevant to this thread. The initial statement was considering why the 15 min. 5k category of runner often times considers themselves elites, often times looking down upon slower runners. You don't often see true elite runners look down on "slower" non elite runners, but you do often see 15 min. guys looking down on others. If you haven't experienced that then I think you're in a minority.And whats wrong with watching poker around the clock?
Dude, you see 18 min guys acting elite, and 22min guys acting elite (lining up at the front of the field when they'll lose by 7-8 min), you see golfers who shoot 75 every day acting elite and ones that shoot 90. But not most of them. You only notice the people who are jerks, not the ones who put their head down and just run. My PR is 15:12, I don't think I'm elite but I win more local races than I lose, and I was very competitive in college at 800m, under 1:50 but still don't consider that elite. But you wouldn't recognize me as someone who thinks they belong at the Trials. I don't think you are a 13:11 guy because there are only a handful of them, and as its been mentioned, they aren't wasting their time with the likes of me. Just like a middle of the road PGA player wouldn't come on a golf board and complain about the guy who shot 82 yesterday and is talking like he won the US Open.
My guess is you either squandered a lot of talent or just didn't have it to begin with (my problem) and are bitter about something. But no I don't believe 15 min guys have any worse attitude than any other pace group.