Why do I hate Teaching?!?!

I have been wondering a lot about the "real world". Back in the day I worked as a programmer. It was very easy work, as I would get my programs working by 9:00, and then help everyone else get theirs working as well. Now I attempt to teach sophmores how to solve mechanics problems in cylindrical coordinates. Programming was easier, so I guess that wasn't the real world.

I shared an office for a time with an engineer who retired from Bell Aerospace in Wheatfield, New York. He designed jet engines. He also said that he usually had to expand 3 hours of work to fill 3 weeks of time, and that teaching engineering students was way more difficult than his engineering job. So, I guess he didn't work in the real world, either.

Then there was my physics professor's son who became an engineer. He designed hydraulic equipment, and got to take the equipment into a field to try to break it - which was much the same as what we did as kids for fun. We would hang out after work while his father slaved over problem sets and exams. My friends job wasn't hard, so I guess he didn't work in the real world, either.

16 fat guy wrote:

You come off poorly and do more to hurt your sides argument than help.

I understand that, and the old college prof is doing much better, but tell me something. Am I supposed to take seriously a criticism of teaching that says it doesn't operate in a "real world." Should this sort of analysis be treated with respect?

I am the principal of a K-8 school.

I deal with many students who are completely disrespectful and unmotivated and are empowered by idiotic parents who will call the superintendent at the drop of a hat. I deal with some teachers that think its ok to post school goings-on on facebook, to talk to kids anyway they please, are negative, and feel entitled to their job no matter how poorly they perform year after year. I deal with a central office that bases my evaluation upon how many complaints they get, student test scores, and a variety of immeasurable and subjective traits that are impossible to negate should a boss have an axe to grind. I take about 50 calls, answer about 50 e-mails, and have about 15 parent conferences a day. I would imagine the job is as stressful as any on the planet.

I make 68k a year, pay $1500 in child support and haven’t had a raise in 6yrs.

However, I love my job because the kids that ARE respectful and motivated; the parents that ARE supportive; and the teachers that ARE enthusiastic and love kids, make it all worthwhile.

...and yes, I have been accused of hiding behind tenure, and only doing what I do because I couldn't make it in the r"real world."

old college math professor wrote:

...and here's the NY Times article about Bill Gates. It is amazing how effective Gates has been at reaching all the way down to the streets and getting plebes on message boards to echo his sentiments.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/22/education/22gates.html?hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1306081530-DjdKZhPBMBvmMzBOz/Ff+Q

follow the money. It is true in law enforcement and is now true in education. Do you know who lobbies for more testing and such? It is the same sompanies that sell their testing and evaluation services to the states. I think all good teachers should just get into test-creation and out of the classroom if they want to earn the real money in education.

No one is claiming that teaching is the easiest job in the world. Trying to make that the argument is creating a straw man.

When people talk of the "real world", they're generally referring to accountability and pay raises based on results. Also, the lack of job security and pensions.

...and then there was my grad school office mate, who went to work for a company in West Virginia. They gave her 6 months to learn the corporate culture, and about a year before she actually had to produce anything. My first teaching post required about a month of planning before the first day of work, because I needed to be onstage, ready to go, live! So, I guess my office mate didn't work in the real world, either.

16 fat guy wrote:

16 flat guy wrote:

Another idiot exposing his lack of knowledge, both of the teaching world AND the business world. I don't know what's cuter, the misconception of how schools work or the naive idealization of the business world.

Nothing you write here anything to do with the "real world" that you claim to admire.

You come off poorly and do more to hurt your sides argument than help.

So did you just troll yourself? Get caught replying to your own post? Forgot to change your name?

ataglance wrote:

So did you just troll yourself? Get caught replying to your own post? Forgot to change your name?

No, I was replying to 16 FAT guy.

old college math professor wrote:

...and then there was my grad school office mate, who went to work for a company in West Virginia. They gave her 6 months to learn the corporate culture, and about a year before she actually had to produce anything. My first teaching post required about a month of planning before the first day of work, because I needed to be onstage, ready to go, live! So, I guess my office mate didn't work in the real world, either.

Have you gotten stuck? Seems like that "grgr" fellow addressed the issue of what was meant by "real world" and is inviting you to move on in the discussion to the real topics at hand. Are you simply unable/unwilling to do this?

I know plenty of people in education that probably couldn't cut it in the "real world". But, I know even more in the real world who wouldn't last a day in an elementary classroom. Heck, I wouldn't last a day in an elementary classroom. I wouldn't last an hour in an elementary classroom in an inner city. I also know plenty of people who left the "real world" for teaching jobs, and very promptly ran back to the "real world" with their tails between their legs.

Maybe there isn't the same accountability in education on a daily basis as there is in, say, a supermarket where people stock shelves and bag groceries. But, there is a very extensive weed-out process that also isn't in place in most private sector jobs. In NY most teachers spend years in school, pass state licensing exams, and then sub for several years before they find permanent employment. Schools get to look at a candidate for 2-4 years before they make a commitment, and then, there is another probabionary period, during which they can be let go. All in all, the average teacher in NY probably doesn't have secure employment until they are about 30.

And, just because a practice is in palce in the private sector is in no way sufficient justification for use of such practices in the public sector. In the private sector, for instance, we are content to let the free market uproot bad companies, and to let the market produce, hopefully, better companies. But, in education, it is not desireable to subject our kids to such upheaval.

...which is why years ago teaching was set up and organized as a profession, not by unions, but by state education departments who were very wise. Now, Bill Gates and the billionaires club want to dismantle the teaching profession, and they have done a very formidable job in swaying public opinion. The information is out there. Do some reading, instead of parroting the latest soundbite that started with the billionairs club paying someone to post on message boards.

old college math professor wrote:

...which is why years ago teaching was set up and organized as a profession, not by unions, but by state education departments who were very wise. Now, Bill Gates and the billionaires club want to dismantle the teaching profession, and they have done a very formidable job in swaying public opinion. The information is out there. Do some reading, instead of parroting the latest soundbite that started with the billionairs club paying someone to post on message boards.

wat.

old college math professor wrote:

...which is why years ago teaching was set up and organized as a profession, not by unions, but by state education departments who were very wise. Now, Bill Gates and the billionaires club want to dismantle the teaching profession, and they have done a very formidable job in swaying public opinion. The information is out there. Do some reading, instead of parroting the latest soundbite that started with the billionairs club paying someone to post on message boards.

OK, now you have revealed yourself as pure troll.

Well done on keeping people thinking you were serious for this long.

9/10

...here it is.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/05/23/bill-gates-selling-bad-advice-to-the-public-schools.html

Our country spends approximately $1,000,000,000,000 per year on k-12 education. Ten years from now a substantial portion of this is going to go to Pearson Publishing. Come back in ten years and tell me this isn't true.

old college math professor wrote:

...here it is.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/05/23/bill-gates-selling-bad-advice-to-the-public-schools.html

Same old tired arguments posting idiotic straw man proposals and then saying that this is Gates' idea.

Example from your article:

"Gates seems not to know or care that the leading testing experts in the nation agree that this is a fruitless and wrongheaded way to identify either good teachers or bad teachers. Student test scores depend on what students do, what effort they expend, how often they attend school, what support they have at home, and most especially on their socioeconomic status and family income. Test scores may go up or go down, in response to the composition of the class, without regard to teacher quality. Students are not randomly assigned to teachers. A teacher of gifted children, whose scores are already sky-high, may see little or no gains. A teacher of children with disabilities may be thrilled to see students respond to instruction, even if their test scores don't go up. A teacher in a poor neighborhood may have high student turnover and poor attendance, and the scores will say nothing about his or her quality. But all will get low marks on state evaluation systems and may end up fired."

In other words - "OK, so let us assume that we should apply student testing in a brain-dead manner. Then we can argue that this is a brain-dead idea."

Sorry, not very convincing to anyone who is not brain-dead.

" But, there is a very extensive weed-out process that also isn't in place in most private sector jobs."

The "weed out process" in the real world is called EVERY FREAKING DAY!!! You dont work X years then get a guaranteed job. What world do you live in?

The fact remains that a lot of rhetoric and teacher bashing originated several years ago with the billionaire's club. It is a documented fact that Gates has paid organisations to influence public opinion. And, they have.

Maybe teachers can be evaluated effectivly. I think they can. But, Bill Gates doesn't know what he is doing. He has clearly reversed his position numerous times, yet he has had a very pervasive influence on policy.

The average person on the street also doesn't know what they are doing. The issues in education are much deeper that what we see on the surface.