Webb Officially in Trials 5k

Goldenboy wrote:

The latest word is that they are taking 25 to the 5K heats instead of 24. They are adding Alan Webb and he is not displacing anyone. Fair or not, at least he's not leaving #24 high and dry. Currently that's Trevor Dunbar.

Yes that appears to be the case from an informed source.

Kind of hinkey, but if they were going to add 24 and no one from that group got bumped...

But then again, why make an exception like that?

Oh, I get it $NIKE$, fan base, hoopla and hubris, TV viewers, message board rats biting their tails and other un-natural acts of deviance. Oh, and did I say $NIKE$?

Well, it probably changed things a little bit with Dunbar being the number #1 distance Duck and all with the OT at Hayward field. No way were they going to kick a local favorite out of the last spot. Lanana, Nike, et al likely had a hand in expanding the field to 25 instead of kicking out Dunbar as #24.

Oh, and I erroneously referred to John Chaplin as John Chamberlain - Freudian slip, I must of been thinking of Neville Chamberlain at the same time - you know, the appeaser.

This is probably the only sport that would be divided over the wisdom of having a worthy legend compete at the Olympic trials even if it means bouncing a marginal runner (and when I say marginal, I mean a runner great enough to even be considered for the Olympic trials). It’s obvious that if you put Webb in the mix he would probably beat 50% of the field, maybe more.

I think if you win the Masters, you are in the field for life. We don’t have those types of rules because it would be sad to see Webb running a mile or 5k at 50 years old. But, let’s at least honor our recent group of runners since 2000 that have changed the landscape of running in the US and perhaps in the world.

And while there are many who started the momentum like Ritz, Meb, Tegenkamp, Solinsky, Hall and Rupp, let’s remember who captured media and HS runners imagination just like Jim Ryun did so many years ago and therefore contributed to the times that we see now.

"It’s obvious that if you put Webb in the mix he would probably beat 50% of the field, maybe more."

I'll take that bet in a heartbeat ! I'll also take bets that #24 Dunbar beats Webb -- or has a faster time if they race in separate heats.

I this isn't QOTD tomorrow I'll cry.

I really vitriolic piece on Chaplin:

http://givingless.blogspot.com/2008/07/douche-for-decades-john-chaplin.html

I'm sure that Webb thinks highly of Dunbar. The Dunbar HS 2 mile snow run was great. I'll bet AW inspired Dunbar to run.

Also from a 2008? Running Times piece:

The funniest thing to me about this entire scenario is this: (and this has likely been mentioned on another thread, or even this one, I haven't read the boards much lately):

Webb was with Salazar last year, a guy training 3 absolute 5k world class studs (ritz, rupp, farah). But he got homesick (again) and decided Salazar wasn't a miler coach.

So he dumps salazar, comes home, and finds a "miler coach."

And now he is trying to make the 5k team.

Classic Webb.

Dave, no disrespect, but I think Trevor's parents are the ones who inspired him to run with his Mom being an All-American at University of Portland and his Dad being a 3:40 1500M runner at Oregon.

been there Mr Bus Driver wrote:

I didn't read the whole thread so sorry if this has been noted. But did Webb pull out of the 5000 last weekend because he had a heads up he'd be granted entry into the 5000 at the trials. If so, that'd be an even more slimy scenario than it already is.

I imagine that if you thought your only chance, was to run the that 5000m at the American Milers meet, then that's what you'd try and do.

But what if you already thought you could get in to the 5000m at the trials, by claiming that you had the necessary fitness? Would you want to risk a bad race that might suggest that you did not have the necessary fitness?

Sub fo', fo' sho wrote:

The funniest thing to me about this entire scenario is this: (and this has likely been mentioned on another thread, or even this one, I haven't read the boards much lately):

Webb was with Salazar last year, a guy training 3 absolute 5k world class studs (ritz, rupp, farah). But he got homesick (again) and decided Salazar wasn't a miler coach.

So he dumps salazar, comes home, and finds a "miler coach."

And now he is trying to make the 5k team.

Classic Webb.

This is a very good post.

troof be told wrote:

call my lawyer wrote:

Stop saying "they." It is John Chaplin and his bogus committee.

"They" generally refers to more than one person, yes.

Webb doesn't have better credentials in this race by the rules that the USATF laid out.

The qualification of Webb's credentials that way is yours, not mine.

You say "that's life" but if it were you you'd be up in arms.

That is a very large assumption considering you don't know who I am.

Our sport has problems and it needs to be held to professional standards. Making it a good ol boys club is holding us back in so many ways -- this is just another one of them.

It seems fairly representative of the way American society works in general, don't you think?

Oh you're so clever. I should have been more clear.

1. "They" is actually just John Chaplin. There is no evidence that there is an appointed subcommittee visible on the USATF website.

2. The qualification of Webb's credentials is the USATF's not mine.

3. If this is the case, you have no stones and I feel bad for you.

4. No, I believe that sport is one place in our society where there are clear winners and losers and even clearer measurement of a person's performance. Hijacking a process that should be open and clear is screwing that up.

There are some problems with the USATF's rules on their Olympic trials website. First, the USATF website says on the entry and declaration web page:

"USATF Rule 11.3(b) concerning adding athletes to make a competitive field and USATF Rule 8 concerning automatic qualifications will be used."

However, Rule 11.3(b) does not apply to the USA Outdoor Track and Field Championships, only the Indoor Track and Field Championships. Take a look at the rule book here:

Further, rule 10.3, the rule for the outdoor track and field championships and the rule cited in rule 27 (the rule for olympic trial entry selection) do not allow for the competitive field clause of 11.3b.

10.3 says:

In the USA Track and Field Championships, all entered contestants shall have met the qualifying requirements adopted by the respective sport committee, or by the properly authorized subcommittee thereof, and listed in the published entry material, or must be approved by a special subcommittee appointed by the Chairs of the respective sport committees. In appointing this subcommittee every effort shall be made to include representation from athlete, coach, and sport committees. Petitions to this subcommittee must be presented in writing, including electronic communication, without the possibility of further appeal beyond this subcommittee. Petitions and decisions shall be posted at the subcommittee work-site. The addition of an athlete by petition shall not prevent an otherwise qualified athlete from participation.

Alan clearly can get in by the merit of this magical subcommittee. I'd like to know who they are. Who are the athletes, coaches, and sport committee reps? The subcommittee needs to post who has petitioned and what the decisions are, as outlined by 10.3. Where is that site? They can't use the competitive field clause in this case. Fam should be allowed in if we're just granting past champs a spot on the line. This rule needs to change.

Sub fo', fo' sho wrote:

The funniest thing to me about this entire scenario is this: (and this has likely been mentioned on another thread, or even this one, I haven't read the boards much lately):

Webb was with Salazar last year, a guy training 3 absolute 5k world class studs (ritz, rupp, farah). But he got homesick (again) and decided Salazar wasn't a miler coach.

So he dumps salazar, comes home, and finds a "miler coach."

And now he is trying to make the 5k team.

Classic Webb.

you can't make this stuff up.

If this is true, that the total field reguardless if they have two heats or not, is going to be 25 runners and currently there are a total of 34 guys ahead of him time wise for the 5k on the list, then it stands to reason that others with faster qualifing times should be given first priority to run.

If for some reason someone can't make it, or are sick or injured, then you should obviously take the next available guy with the next fastest time on the list! This is completely fair and a no-brainer! If it works out that Webb is with in the top 25, with a 13:49 time, then fine, he should absolutely be allowed to run in the race or in one of the two possible heats.

Some here have said that the USATF takes the "A Standard" guys first when filling the numbers for the event and then afterwards, uses a grab-bag pick-n-mix approach to select from the "B Standard" qualifiers those runners whom they feel best round out the total for the race.

If this is actually true, as it appears now to be, I cannot for the life of me believe how unethical and absurdly subjective their selection process is!

Imagine for a moment hypothetically that you have 34 guys who all made it into the 5k with in the "A" Standard. But the field total for the event has been firmly set by the USATF at 25 for months, even posted online for every one to see. Then it would stand to reason in complete fairness and logic to take the top 25 times and allow them to race the event! If that was the criteria stated and understood by both officials and particants alike!

But this is not what they are doing here! Of the 34 guys on the list, 18 have "qualified" and have "declared" the other 16 guys who have all run faster than Webb with in the stated and published timeframe, are "provisional" and "pending".

So obviously USATF is going to have to drop 7 of those 16 guys to round out the field to 25 Right ? So, how are they going to do this? Through a beauty contest, hair style, ethnicity, etc.. One would think that they would do it fairly and take in rank order those runners who were closest to the "A" Standard to fill out the field!

But no, they decided instead that earned performance with in the published and understood time fame does not count for squat! But rather popularity, image profile and past accomplishments, in other words "x-factor!"

If "x-factor" is going to be the criterion for running the US Olympic Trials, then whole system is in crisis and in despirate need of restructuring from the ground up! The culture of privilage and celebrity has penetrated to the core of this corrupt organization that now needs to be gutted from with in!

I call for the immediate resignations of top all USATF officials who blatantly favor celebrity athletes and arrogantly flaunt in the publics face their inside-the-network decision making process! These people are not gods and should not be omnipotent in their selection of runners who have spent years of lifes and thousands of their dollars climbing the ladder of competition, only to be turned away at the last second because they don't measure up to the committee's "x-factor" standards!

How truely sad this whole thing is! People lying to themselves, to the public and to the athletes, all so that they can get the most bang for their buck!

Makes Me Sick!

Sub fo', fo' sho wrote:

The funniest thing to me about this entire scenario is this: (and this has likely been mentioned on another thread, or even this one, I haven't read the boards much lately):

Webb was with Salazar last year, a guy training 3 absolute 5k world class studs (ritz, rupp, farah). But he got homesick (again) and decided Salazar wasn't a miler coach.

So he dumps salazar, comes home, and finds a "miler coach."

And now he is trying to make the 5k team.

Classic Webb.

That is pretty funny if you think about it. Not to mention he actually beat Rupp the only time they raced together under Salazar.

Apparently most people here do not know John Chaplin. I used to run for him, and I can tell you that he does not care one bit what you think. You are all wasting your time.

Like it or not, your past running achievements factor into your ability to get into meets in this sport. How do people get into Diamond League meets? Do they have time standards and only pick the guys with the fastest times from a list? Maybe you think it should be different in the Olympic Trials, and that's fair, but the people running the show at the top are merciless when it comes to evaluating your talent. Webb has demonstrated world class talent in the past and nobody ahead of him in the B-list has (yet). This is why it is a no-brainer for Chaplin to put Webb in the meet. Be sure that if Webb does not perform well that he will not get another chance like this.

The fact that Webb is added as an "extra" (25th) person shows that they filled the field first with the B-qualifiers, then added Webb due to special circumstances. If Webb did not get in, the next guy on the B-list would not have gotten in, so nobody got screwed here. Webb only got in on the strength of his resume. Hassan Mead (or whoever is #25), as good as he is, will not make Chaplin feel bad and would never have gotten in without being in the top 24. Chaplin is not an emotional guy, he is a cold hard realist.

Chaplin does not think like you do. To characterize his personality would take more writing than I care to do. Put simply, if you have proven your ability to be world class, he MIGHT help you. If you have not, he won't hurt you, but he won't help you. He does not share your sense of entitlement for people on the bubble.

I'm not endorsing his position, just telling you how it is with him.

So, if I am reading this right both Alan's petition to get into the trials and the subcommittee decision allowing him in should be posted in some public place in Eugene. Somebody on-site should be able to get a picture and post it online.

25 Total? wrote:

Imagine for a moment hypothetically that you have 34 guys who all made it into the 5k with in the "A" Standard. But the field total for the event has been firmly set by the USATF at 25 for months, even posted online for every one to see. Then it would stand to reason in complete fairness and logic to take the top 25 times and allow them to race the event! If that was the criteria stated and understood by both officials and particants alike!

It stands to reason that they'd completely disregard their own policy and turn away people who, by rule, are allowed to compete? Anyone who runs the A standard is allowed to run in the trials. That's the rule. It doesn't stand to reason that people with the A standard would be turned away under any circumstances.