Future Star: 1600 in 4:05 at High School Dual Meet

Flagpole wrote:

Obviously this kid has some talent, but I'd rather see him run in a big invitational with other decent runners, cones or aluminum barriers on the curves, no pacing done by another kid (honestly I think that's a bit lame in a high school dual meet race or maybe even ANY high school race), and no people running on the infield with him the last 100 meters.

Running's not cycling. You're spending almost the same energy (in Joules) running a 4:05 on a track in similar weather conditions regardless of the competition or lack thereof.

I think you left your caps lock on... AGAIN, White river is NOT a tiny school. It is normal sized for washington. AND Gould and marcus did plan the pacing.

Can you say over developed?

This kid is a phenomenal talent! He overstrides, his pacing is not ideal, it is a little windy and probably a little cool and he solos a 4:05 in April!? Fantastic. With some coaching over the next six weeks, this kid could run under 4:00 in a big national meet in June. I just hope his coach has a head on his shoulders. A kid like this needs to be handle carefully. He is big and muscled and could easily do too much on the track when it doesn't count. His coach needs to put him into situations where he is fresh and healthy and ready to run well with the right group of people and not time trial him to death in small state meets. My 2 cents!

flagga wrote:

This kid is a phenomenal talent! He overstrides, his pacing is not ideal, it is a little windy and probably a little cool and he solos a 4:05 in April!? Fantastic. With some coaching over the next six weeks, this kid could run under 4:00 in a big national meet in June. I just hope his coach has a head on his shoulders. A kid like this needs to be handle carefully. He is big and muscled and could easily do too much on the track when it doesn't count. His coach needs to put him into situations where he is fresh and healthy and ready to run well with the right group of people and not time trial him to death in small state meets. My 2 cents!

I doubt he's going to "time trial" the races at state... he'll be in the 800 in the morning, 1600 in the afternoon and anchor their 4x4 in the evening. He'll probably just run to win for the first two races (it'll only take ~1:54 and 4:15 to win unless someone actually pushes the pace in the 1600... which, I guess is a possibility since they'll be facing a pretty good kick from Dickson).

Flagpole wrote:

Obviously this kid has some talent, but I'd rather see him run in a big invitational with other decent runners, cones or aluminum barriers on the curves, no pacing done by another kid (honestly I think that's a bit lame in a high school dual meet race or maybe even ANY high school race), and no people running on the infield with him the last 100 meters.

Agreed. Especially if it interfered with the pacer running his own event(s). High School's a special time for being on the team... and everyone should get equal chances to compete.

Flagpole, you've changed your emphasis so many times it's hard to keep up. If I didn't know any better I'd say you made some ridiculous off-hand comments early on, then when you were called on it you refused to back down from your stance regardless of the fact that you understand that you were wrong. So you selectively picked some critiques of your comments that you could make your best stand with (still poorly, mind you) and disregarded those that were impossible to refute.

Or you just refuse to accept that it is possible, likely, accepted, and common for friends to help each other out regardless of who is faster. And that it's possible, likely, accepted, and common for people to not give half a sh*t about some crappy dual meet.

Either way, you've pretty much proven yourself to be the biggest douche on the planet. Some old man who can't stand that there are people who would help each other out and can't stand the success of others so you devise a set of standards that, when not met, allow you to: question someone's masculinity, claim they have no self-respect, and discount any performance that makes you feel bad about your life (bear in mind, we're talking about a few teenagers here, so big thumbs up for that, buddy).

I saw someone mention Oak Harbor earlier in this thread. Could that be Oak Harbor WA? Do you live in WA? God, I hope so. I'd love for you to go to a meet and tell these kids your terrible views on their efforts. My guess would be that they'd laugh and/or brush it off, but I'd love to have them look you right in the eye and tell you what a cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-ass, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed sack of monkey shit you are.

Hallelujah! Holy shit!

Where's the Tylenol?

[Though I suppose none of this matters since I have been paced and paced races myself - school records, all-Americans, conference championships, etc are all pretty meaningless to me now that I know how I should feel about the sanctity of dual meets]

You can pace a teammate, and not complain about it!

Otherwise you're a wimp.

Saul Goodman wrote:

look you right in the eye and tell you what a cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-ass, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed sack of monkey shit you are.

Hallelujah! Holy shit!

Where's the Tylenol?

WIN. ULTIMATE WIN!!!!

And by the way, awesome race Marcus D! Reppin' dat Washington!

This thread is hilarious.

I just wonder how FP feels about someone like Matt Scherer, who has now made a living as a professional pacesetter/rabbit. Scherer is no slouch (:45 400 / 1:46 800), but he's nowhere near as good as some of the people he paces...the list is long and distinguished: Lagat, Kaki, Laalou, Symmonds, Willis, Yego, Komen, etc.

I remember FP saying that he doesn't see a problem with a faster guy dropping down to pace a slower guy, but with Scherer, here is someone slower pacing noticeably faster guys, and I doubt Scherer feels like a patsy doing it. He is well respected, well liked, and, to be honest, the best at what he does. He might never make the Olympics, but he's making a living, and contributing greatly to PRs, world records, and amazing races.

Is he a professional patsy, then? I don't think so.

nikeman wrote:

No one CARES about your opinion, Flagpole.

Pacing a teammate is not uncommon.

1) They obviously do care as is demonstrated by the number of responses.

2) Not all things that are "not uncommon" are things that should be.

Ha!1) Sorry brother, but I do not believe I am wrong on this issue, so you are incorrect there.2) You are saying I made ridiculous off-hand comments early on? Really? Dude, go back and read my first comment. Basically the thing people are harping on is that I said I thought pacing in high school was a bit lame. From that, people have decided that I'm against professional pacers making a living, and a whole bunch of other HUGE leaps.ttc agreed with me, and he's one of the best posters ever at Letsrun, so that works for me (quite frankly though, I don't need someone to agree with me to know I'm right about this).If you think it's ok to play an obvious second fiddle to the star on the team, then we'll just have to disagree brother. I wouldn't have done that, and man I would have been embarrassed to have someone throw their race to prop me up. No high school kid is special enough to have that kind of hero treatment in my opinion, and it won't ever happen on my watch. As I've already said, I blame the coaches, not the runners in this case.

Saul Goodman wrote:

Flagpole, you've changed your emphasis so many times it's hard to keep up. If I didn't know any better I'd say you made some ridiculous off-hand comments early on, then when you were called on it you refused to back down from your stance regardless of the fact that you understand that you were wrong.

Flagpole wrote:

If you think it's ok to play an obvious second fiddle to the star on the team, then we'll just have to disagree brother. I wouldn't have done that, and man I would have been embarrassed to have someone throw their race to prop me up. No high school kid is special enough to have that kind of hero treatment in my opinion, and it won't ever happen on my watch. As I've already said, I blame the coaches, not the runners in this case.

Again, how did the guy "throw his race"? He finished second.

flagpole, 10/10. 154 responses is outstanding work.

You are dialed in to this place like no one else.

I mean that in a good way - clearly people care what you say and you are able to deal with the name calling in a fun way.

You, sir, go to 11.

kertwang wrote:

flagpole, 10/10. 154 responses is outstanding work.

You are dialed in to this place like no one else.

I mean that in a good way - clearly people care what you say and you are able to deal with the name calling in a fun way.

You, sir, go to 11.

You sir are a smart man.

My #1 and #2 were an either/or scenario. #3 was that regardless of #1 or #2, you were a douche.

Yes, your earliest comments were ludicrous. No rail or cones (I coached HS for 5 years and never once saw cones on a HS track outside of an invite or state - and most HS tracks aren't IAAF certified). Teammates running with him down the homestretch (one guy ran part of the homestretch to yell), the fact that it wasn't in an invite with better competition.

I do find it amusing that I bring up your selective defenses, then you selectively ignore certain parts of my post:

Friends help each other out

Barely anyone cares about sacrificing a dual meet

You have claimed two teenagers aren't masculine enough

You have claimed that two teenagers have no self-respect

I've never actually said this phrase before, but you should be ashamed of yourself.

But one other random internet avatar has agreed with you so that makes you okay with it.

Second fiddle? He's playing second fiddle by virtue of being born in the same time and region as this other kid. And he didn't care enough about one dual meet to give up his race to help a buddy. They put on a show at their last home meet and set a ridiculous school record. It would have been shameful to do that at a championship meet or invite, but he did it in a meaningless dual meet. I can't believe you don't get that. The pacer wasn't going to beat the 4:05 and he has much bigger fish to fry than the 4:50+ others in the race.

Eventually I do tire of these things. I can't make you people have the right attitude.1) I agree that friends help each other out. Racing and pacing in a high school meet is no place for that.2) I said I would "rather see" cones or a rail. Make a big thing about setting a record, then all should be kosher. The kid clearly steps on the line, and who knows what happened on the other side that we can't see. Doesn't mean I discount the time, for I surely inadvertently have stepped on a line before when there was no barrier...I just said I would "rather" have seen those things...a barrier, no pacing in the race or on the infield. For that you call me a "douche" and say I should be ashamed of myself? Maybe you should work on not getting so worked up over someone having a different opinion than you do.

He's apparently a 4:16 kid who may have run 4:13 that for all I know could have been his lifetime PR. Instead his coach has him pace the star and he jogs in for a 4:37. I don't blame the kid, for he's a kid. I blame the coaches for allowing it to happen. 4:16 kids don't run 4:37...that's a thrown race.

second wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

If you think it's ok to play an obvious second fiddle to the star on the team, then we'll just have to disagree brother. I wouldn't have done that, and man I would have been embarrassed to have someone throw their race to prop me up. No high school kid is special enough to have that kind of hero treatment in my opinion, and it won't ever happen on my watch. As I've already said, I blame the coaches, not the runners in this case.

Again, how did the guy "throw his race"? He finished second.

I love athletic.net. Here are Kody Gould's season performances: http://www.athletic.net/TrackAndField/Athlete.aspx?AID=534408Kody set his season PR of 4:16, an improvement of 9 seconds over his previous best, two days after pacing the 4:05 race. I would say he and his coaches know what they are doing.Young people following this thread: There are some screwed up people out there. Be careful who you listen to, particularly on message boards.

Flagpole wrote:

He's apparently a 4:16 kid who may have run 4:13 that for all I know could have been his lifetime PR. Instead his coach has him pace the star and he jogs in for a 4:37. I don't blame the kid, for he's a kid. I blame the coaches for allowing it to happen. 4:16 kids don't run 4:37...that's a thrown race.