Archer wrote:
The fact is NYC is NYC. If you want media attention that is where you have to be. Yeah everyone hates it, but it's true. It's the media capital of the world.
That is such BS. Meb won the NYC marathon and the Trials were in NY last time.
Is running much more popular as a result? No.
And to the poster who said there were more people at the Trials in NY last time than in NY, I disagree. I was at both and thought the Boston crowd was much bigger.
Don Draper wrote:
If it were only true. NBC owns the rights to ALL Olympic and Olympic Trials broadcasts. It is up to NBC, and NBC alone, to decide to televise the Trials. The Houston organizers have no influence over their decisions.
Houston can, however, get LOCAL TV coverage via the NBC affiliate in Houston, if the local affiliate thinks it's worth their investment.
DD
Rhetoric. NBC has a price for that time slot on that day.
STFU. wrote:
Looks like the vast majority average $178. $178 * 40k = $7.12M
Consider:
From the 2009 results:
US finishers: 22235
Intl finishers: 21506
NYRR Members: 9378
Assuming all NYRR Members are US runners gives:
NYRR 9378 * ($11 + $149) = $1.50M
USA (22235 - 9378) * ($11 + $185) = $2.52M
INTL 21506 * ($11 + $265) = $5.94M
Subtotal = $9.96M
Assume 90,000 Applicants
(90,000 - 22235 - 21506) * $11 = $0.51M
Consider DNF/DNS's and we are talking about an entry haul of probably in excess of $11M.
I don't know how you want to measure whether running is "more popular," but marathon entries are increasing all the time.
Which still doesn't answer the outgo part of the equation. Even if the entry fee income is $245M, if the costs for the race sum to $245.5M then the entry fees don't cover the costs. This should be easy enough to understand, even for the densest readers.
STFU. wrote:
Which still doesn't answer the outgo part of the equation. Even if the entry fee income is $245M, if the costs for the race sum to $245.5M then the entry fees don't cover the costs. This should be easy enough to understand, even for the densest readers.
Which is exactly why hardset nipples shouldn't talk out of his/her a$$ with comments like "NYCM probably does not break even on entry fees. Learn the business of the sport." He has no idea what the break even cost is. Heck, he/she couldn't even deal with an estimate of the entry fees when most of that information is right smack on NYRR's site.
[quote]Points wrote:
[quote]duke v wrote:
because millions of people across the US and the world know the difference between Ritz and Taco Ockerse.
Post of the Month
Houston will do a Great Job.
The athletes will have a great experience.
It's a win win for Houston and the athletes, USATF & Logan.
But it could be better!
Two separate cities means there would be greater exposure for the sport.
It doesn't help women's LDR to run it the same day as the men. (I think the present plan is to start the women a few minutes after the men). If they do that, it splits the focus. It also highlights that the women are not as fast as the men. The women should have their own race on their own day.
If they do run both races on the same course at the same time (with a staggered start)will they have two sets of clocks for the mile/km marks? If yes, that may become a little confusing? add that to two sets of fluid stations.
Again, Houston will do a GREAT job but it could be better!
One city for both M & W are better since it attracts more press, more families as spectators, more families at the fatty trot, more hobby videos and hobby pictures from retirees who blog and upload to youtube.
Mostly because you made gross assumptions about entry fee income. No matter how big that income is, you don't have a clue as to whether it covers basic costs. I do.
duke v wrote:
STFU. wrote:Which still doesn't answer the outgo part of the equation. Even if the entry fee income is $245M, if the costs for the race sum to $245.5M then the entry fees don't cover the costs. This should be easy enough to understand, even for the densest readers.
Which is exactly why hardset nipples shouldn't talk out of his/her a$$ with comments like "NYCM probably does not break even on entry fees. Learn the business of the sport." He has no idea what the break even cost is. Heck, he/she couldn't even deal with an estimate of the entry fees when most of that information is right smack on NYRR's site.
zzzzzzz wrote:
Two separate cities means there would be greater exposure for the sport.
How? It's already been explained that with the two races at the same venue means that media outlets, in tough economic times and with a struggling print media industry, do not have to decide between covering one or the other and Houston is a far less expensive stay for out-of-town media members than either NYC or Boston would be.
Well....this "out-of-town reporters" question is interesting. What out-of-town reporters do you expect to go to Houston? Most daily newspapers, if THEY still exist, don't have track writers anymore, and if they do, they don't tend to send them across the country.
So are we supposed to believe that the same person who clearly has no idea how much revenue is generated from entry fees (which is very easy to approximate from public information) somehow knows what the "basic costs" (which are very variable from year-to-year and NOT public) of the marathon are??? Right.
I'll also point out that you also are the same person who wrongly claimed that Houston put in its bid that the OTs will be broadcast nationally. Your credibility isn't exactly high on here. Perhaps it's time to switch SNs?
New York lied and did not do a GREAT job last time. NYRR have their own PR department that did a good job of providing misinformation.
1. New York is expensive. This is the first Olympic trials that I ran in that my extended family could not afford to come.
2. My High School track coach has been to every OT marathon since 1968 but could not afford to come to NY. I have talked with several people that were in the same situation.
3. The NYRR refused to have fluids tables for B Qualifiers. This was not part of their bid and has not been the case in any previous marathon trials. They eventually caved because of public outcry.
4. NYRR promised NATIONAL TELEVISION coverage and then blamed the lack of coverage on NBC.
5. They promised transportation to and from the airport but dropped the ball on this one for over half the field.
6. Their was no pre race dinner but instead a luncheon that was at the technical meeting.
7. A large portion of the technical meeting was Mary patting herself on the back for providing fluids to everyone and how unique this was. It had already been done at both previous mens trials.
8. Alan Steinfeld was offensive in this same meeting.
Every one of the above complaints were handled better at both Birmingham and Pittsburgh. New York was a huge lonely disappointment. When writing a letter of complaint to USATF, I received a letter back indicating that changes would be made in the future that would limit the field size in an attempt to give all participants a better experience. In other words, I shouldn't even have been there.
With sufficient lead time, I can get your Coach and family to Central Park for less than $400 from nearly anywhere in the country. Double up in rooms and it's cheaper/person. This includes one night's stay at a safe hotel within easy commuting distance from Central Park via public transportation. No rental car or parking.
How much more is that than traveling to another city in the US?
stop all this nonsense wrote:
New York lied and did not do a GREAT job last time. NYRR have their own PR department that did a good job of providing misinformation.
1. New York is expensive. This is the first Olympic trials that I ran in that my extended family could not afford to come.
2. My High School track coach has been to every OT marathon since 1968 but could not afford to come to NY. I have talked with several people that were in the same situation.
3. The NYRR refused to have fluids tables for B Qualifiers. This was not part of their bid and has not been the case in any previous marathon trials. They eventually caved because of public outcry.
4. NYRR promised NATIONAL TELEVISION coverage and then blamed the lack of coverage on NBC.
5. They promised transportation to and from the airport but dropped the ball on this one for over half the field.
6. Their was no pre race dinner but instead a luncheon that was at the technical meeting.
7. A large portion of the technical meeting was Mary patting herself on the back for providing fluids to everyone and how unique this was. It had already been done at both previous mens trials.
8. Alan Steinfeld was offensive in this same meeting.
Every one of the above complaints were handled better at both Birmingham and Pittsburgh. New York was a huge lonely disappointment. When writing a letter of complaint to USATF, I received a letter back indicating that changes would be made in the future that would limit the field size in an attempt to give all participants a better experience. In other words, I shouldn't even have been there.
(1) Why should we care that your "extended" family determined that NYC was too expensive for them? Was this your 3rd cousin once removed? Yes, NYC is expensive, but flights there are plentiful and not expensive. You really don't have to stay at the Carlyle to watch the OTs and there are plenty of cheap hotels just outside of the city.
(2) Again, do we really care? Also, who is to say that your extended family and high school coach won't be able to afford to go to Houston as well? There are a lot less flights into Houston and they will fill up a lot faster than the flights into NYC. Have you also considered all of the other people who live within driving distance of NYC who, for the first time, COULD afford to go to the OTs because they didn't have to pay for airline tickets and/or a hotel? It's A LOT more than will be able to say the same thing about Houston.
(3) What public outcry? Were people chattering across the US about how ridiculous it was that B fluids weren't going to be available at the OTs? Get over yourself. This was not up there with the Iraq war or the financial crisis at the time in terms of public outcries.
(4) As discussed previously, NBC and only NBC controls the national television coverage. What is NYRR supposed to do when NBC commits to broadcasting the race nationally and then drops the ball on it? Do you think NYRR conspired with NBC not to show the race? That's not exactly in NYRR's best interests and your ire should instead be directed at NBC.
(5) What does "dropped the ball on this one for over half the field" mean? If it means that David Monti wouldn't personally drive a lot of the runners to and from the airport, you are correct. As a B qualifier, you were provided shuttle service to and from the hotel as per here:
http://www.usatf.org/events/2008/OlympicTrials-Marathon-Men/athleteInfo/travel.aspAre you claiming that you filled out your Questionnaire and the NYRR told you and over 1/2 the field to hitchhike back to the airport? I find that very dubious.
(6) Was a dinner canceled? I'm not sure what your beef is here.
(7) You are aware that there were more than 2 OTs before 2008?
(8) That shouldn't surprise anyone who has spent any time with him but I'm not sure why that is relevant here.
You may disagree with me and that is 100% fair. I should have done a better job with my wording.
Should have been:
My personal experience with the Olympic Trials in New York was the worst of my 3 Olympic Trials.............
That way I am only speaking for myself.
I can't apologize for how I felt. My experience was rotten and better in both Pittsburgh (including the heat) and Birmingham.
Yanqui wrote:
Well....this "out-of-town reporters" question is interesting. What out-of-town reporters do you expect to go to Houston? Most daily newspapers, if THEY still exist, don't have track writers anymore, and if they do, they don't tend to send them across the country.
They do have Olympics and running writers. Also, newspapers are far from the only print media.
You have no basis for making such a judgment. Stop using "we" where you mean "I." I didn't wrongly claim anything, your bottomless ignorance is to blame.
http://www.letsrun.com/2010/houstonkarpas0301.php
"*National television (the details have not been decided and the national television may not be live, but national TV was a basic requirement of the bid)."
Mary promised National Television coverage in 2007.
Houston promised the same for 2012.
We have already learned that one of them have lied to us. Now we will find out if Houston is as dishonest as Mary. If so, then they are EQUAL.
Anyone that tries to blame it on NBC or the USOC or IOC or USATF is ignorant. None of those organizations promised National Television coverage. Only one person did that.
In order to make that sort of a promise you should have it in writing from NBC or DON'T PROMISE.