Wow how can BYU's team be legit?

McBride wrote:

You bitch and whine because they're better than you. Too bad. They are playing by the rules. It is fair play. And even if they do get knocked out for being able to do this, you still won't make it to nationals.

Resorting to ignorant, uninformed attacks in a feeble attempt to justify your point of view? Pathetic. Run along and play with your little friends on Xbox Live, kid.

The bottom line... wrote:

How about you get fast too? wrote:

Why? The NCAA doesn't think they gain an unfair advantage so why punish them?

First of all, you will notice that many people have chimed in on this thread stating that they do gain an unfair advantage, including people who are LDS themselves and/or BYU advocates. Also, the NCAA imposed the age restrictions in the first place because they definitely do believe it's an advantage! Granting an exemption is simply unfair to the rest of the competitors.

You have a very interesting interpretation of the word "punishment." Running at a D-II school is not a punishment, and neither is losing two years of eligibility. If your beliefs are more important than track/cross-country, that is certainly admirable, but you shouldn't receive any special favors as a result of your non-athletic preferences.

You are so firm about what the NCAA believes regarding these age restrictions but when it comes to them not believing BYU athlete's gain too much of an advantage you just throw it out the window. NCAA believes age matter fine. NCAA also believes that LDS athletes do not gain too much of an advantage for them to compete with NCAA athletes or they would have already put a rule like that into place.

2 Years really is not that much older. When those 2 years weren't spent training then whatever arguable potential advantage reduces significantly, if there is any at all. So the reason for BYU running so fast is their coaching, talent, training regimen, and team. The 2 year age gap that SOME of the top 5 have is negligible considering they took those two years off and because 2 of their top 5 who have returned from missions are still younger than typical seniors.

In conclusion...

-The 2 year age gap is negligible especially when considering the 2 year lack of training. What athlete who wants to become a professional some day could possibly think it's helpful to take 2 years off? None.

-It is not any age gap that makes BYU that fast or they would always have an amazing team since they always have some guys with the age gap.

-They would still be a top 10 team without any age gap because their top guy Batty would still be competing right now and he would not have taken 2 years off. Their 5th man Bahr would still be competing and not have taken 2 years off. Their 2nd man Gruenewald didn't go on a mission. Their other 2 guys in the top 5 would have graduated, but they would not have taken those 2 years off. So someone else would be filling their position who may not be as fast, but Batty and Bahr would be faster without the 2 year break which would likely make up for it

How about you get fast too? wrote:

2 Years really is not that much older... The 2 year age gap is negligible

I'm sorry, but that point has been shown to be a fallacy based upon the fact that LDS advocates within this thread have already admitted that it's an advantage.

Next?

The bottom line... wrote:

I'm sorry, but that point has been shown to be a fallacy based upon the fact that LDS advocates within this thread have already admitted that it's an advantage.

Next?

go find that on the thread and quote it. And I'm sorry but i would disagree and so would the NCAA

How about you get fast too? wrote:

go find that on the thread and quote it.

Really? Not exactly the most mature counter-point, but based upon your previous posts I suppose that I shouldn't expect too much more than that. Here you go:

Been there done that wrote:

Like some people who have already posted on here, I also served an LDS mission... Yeah, the BYU runners are older when and if they get back into shape and start running again and maybe this is an advantage

How about you get fast too? wrote:

And I'm sorry but i would disagree and so would the NCAA

You are more than welcome to disagree. That doesn't change the probability that you're wrong. Additionally, the NCAA doesn't disagree. They have rules in place to eliminate an unfair advantage based upon the athlete's age. However, athletes who are granted exemptions is tantamount to breaking the rules.

Just the fact that the person used the word "maybe" right there shows that nobody who is supporting the argument that missions are not an advantage has really said that they believe it is a strong advantage.

And I don't see how asking you too cite your source is immature. It's something you learn to do in school when you grow up so I see no validity in that argument.

And again the NCAA allows LDS members to serve missions and come back without their eligibility clock having ticked. If they thought the advantage they were given was so unfair it would affect the NCAA rankings or standings I'm sure they would change it. Fact it they don't think that so they don't change it

2 years is negligible? Are you f***ing kidding me?

So the difference between Ritz now and 2 years ago is nothin huh? In those 2 years he is pretty much the same runner right? Same with Rupp, or German or countless others. 2 Years is a big f***ing deal especially at college age.

not when those are two year of gaining fat or losing muscle mass or both. I am so much faster than I was 2 years ago but believe me after 2 years off i'd be so much slower than i was sophomore year in high school probably. Generally i'd say 2 years makes a difference but not in the case of a returned missionary spending 2 years losing fitness

First off,

being a mormon sucks worse than being jewish.

Second,

my mormon friends did their missions in LA and the suburbs of DC. really "impoverished" lifestyles they were living there fellas. I'm sure if they were starving, their mormon priests or whatever they call them would throw them a bone once in a while.

my mormon friends told me that they don't do the missions the same as they used to (like when all the old mormon shrivs posting on this board did their missions), I think they have time to train because the way of the world has changed, the religion is more lenient. Every religion has its flaws and deceits. They all give in to something at somepoint because the bottom line is....all religions are bullshit. Yes, even you catholics aren't right.

There's no glorious kingdom waiting for you when you die...just a hole in the ground.

Sorry you feel that way. But missionaries today yesterday and tomorrow have just as strict of rules. Those missionaries in LA and DC aren't starving. They're gaining weight because they aren't running. The missions are just as or more strict and they have little to no time to train. Somebody absolutely dedicated to getting as much running in as he can and not serving his mission fully (which is unlikely enough) would maybe get in 10 miles a week. Most try for a little then give up or do get in MAYBE 10-20 miles a week for a FEW short periods of time (like 2 weeks at a time) in the mission field.

Once again, if it was an advantage to take two years off from serious training and all competition to go on a mission:

1) It would be banned by the NCAA

2) Every top program in the country would try to figure out a way for their athletes take two years off

Those complaining about BYU have yet to address those two facts with anything remotely resembling a logical argument.

let's keep in mind the people that are being talked about. Division 1 athletes at BYU. In many cases they're high school phenoms and running is what they do first and foremost. Do you think you like to run and call it your passion? If that's true then most of these guys can say that too and then some. Running isn't something easily given up for 2 years for guys like that.

Especially since they know that they will be running Div 1 cross country and track within the next 2 yrs. Realize the caliber of athletes we're. This isn't 10:20 3200m runners graduating from high school. These are topnotch guys.

I LOVE IT!!!!

BYU is having success so they must be cheating.

they have had the same system for 100 years, and only finished on the podium once since 1981 (thats the farthest in history I can see the results)

if it was such an advantage than they would have more than one podium finish in 28 years.

BYU's advantage is not their age! I know what it is.

ED EYESTONE!

since he took over in 2000... they have made it to NCAA's every year.

they have finished as high as 5th (2005)

If you guys think its unfair, call Ed and ask him to coach you. that will level the playing field.

until you do that you are always going to be at a disadvantage to BYU runners

To me, the real reason I, along with many other runners who serve missions and return can compete at a competitive level is because throughout those two years you are learning discipline, perspective, humility, regimented schedules, commitment, and other principles that can help compensate for the two year gap in training. This gap is hard to overcome, but with BYU, you are working with twelve-fifteen others who are overcoming that gap due to a very deep and heartfelt commitment. There is rarely feelings of bitterness or regret about giving up these two years, and you will find the majority of runners before their mission actually suck when they get back. I did a lot. Usually running becomes less of a priority when compared to church responsibilities, family, jobs, etc. It is a distinct disadvantage in the sense of age,etc.

gawd, you guys kill me!!!!

please, somebody, just one person, show us the passage of the handbook which limits age...and quote the EXACT TEXT....oh, that's right,

AN AGE LIMIT DOES NOT EXIST IN THE NCAA D-I!!!!!

don't believe me? just look at how many people post the exact passage stating such....now of course there is a passage that states 4yrs of eligibility in 5...but that's totally different. man there's so many douchebags on this thread, it's killing me.

up to my eyeballs in $#it!!!! wrote:

AN AGE LIMIT DOES NOT EXIST IN THE NCAA D-I!!!!!

Another uneducated @$$hole on Letsrun.

dean moriarty wrote:

if it was an advantage to take two years off from serious training and all competition to go on a mission:

1) It would be banned by the NCAA

Yeah it's not an advantage, so therefore, obviously no Mormans go on missions.

2) Every top program in the country would try to figure out a way for their athletes take two years off[/quote]

Right, all programs in the country would want their runners to go on missions for two years and then transfer to BYU to train with Ed Eyestone.

bboss wrote:

I LOVE IT!!!!

BYU is having success so they must be cheating.

they have had the same system for 100 years, and only finished on the podium once since 1981 (thats the farthest in history I can see the results)

if it was such an advantage than they would have more than one podium finish in 28 years.

Slow down man. I'm not one of the guys saying they're cheating. They aren't breaking any rules. I think people should lay off. They aren't cheating!

Only thing I dispute are the people who say division 1 athletes go on their missions and get fat while they're fully aware of coming back to the team after they're done. I mean some of these guys run 9:00 3200m in high school and have a big career looking up at them in the future. And I'm supposed to believe that they just completely forget about running for 2 full years while they're away? Of course none of us are actually on their missions with them. But to assume D1 athletes do the same thing as you did on your mission, or your buddy on his mission, or some average guy while he's on his mission is crazy.

I don't know. Maybe they do get fat. I'd love to hear actual stories from actual D1 guys. But regardless, they aren't cheating. That's ridiculous.