Wow Hobie call, guy from quote of the day 7/10/12, is beyond ignorant

home demolition wrote:

Jonesey wrote:

Why is it 40lbs and not 45 or 35? What is magical about this 40lb vest?

Have you ever seen a 35 or 45 lb bag of sakrete at the local hardware?

I've seen lots of 35lb bags.

common wrote:

Sorry, my bad. Hobie did Top of Utah in 2:16:39, which converts to 2:14:46, with a tailwind. Or something.

http://www.asksasha.com/predictor.php

Anybody else notice how crazy the Sasha guy himself is? His PR is 2:24 and his goal is 2:08! And he looks to be 40 years old.

Preakness wrote:

Can he break 2 for the full thon? Maybe he can, maybe he can't. Let's not knock him before he tries. Remember, people said bannister couldn't break 4 in the mile (full).

Anderson and Hagg had both run 4:01 ten years before Bannister. Bannister, Santee and Landy had all run 4:02 in the previous month.

In other words, Bannister only had to run a single mile at 1 second per mile faster than current world record pace and 2 seconds per mile faster than his PR. This guy is saying that he can run 26 miles at 8 seconds faster than current world record pace and 37 seconds per mile faster than his current PR (set on a course practically that goes off the side of a cliff).

Yes, Sasha is kind of out there. He's a smart guy, but has some problems extrapolating training results to fit reality.

We're all still tiptoeing around a couple of things.

1) We all agree the weight-vest training method is insane, and won't work, but so far, I haven't seen a really good dismantling of Call's hypothesis with some scientific support for why it doesn't work. We know it doesn't work for someone who is 40 pounds overweight, and gradually loses the weight, and that is essentially what Call is doing, but his supporters will say that is different somehow, because you can add and remove weight at will with a vest, so bob loblaw.

2) Mr. Call has not in any way provided documented proof that he has achieved the 4:40 mile wearing a 40lb vest that he claims as central, vital support for his training hypothesis. He makes multiple claims about his 4:40 mile in a 40lb vest, including: "you find a sub-2:05 marathoner or a sub-3:50 miler and put a 40-pound vest on them. If they can break 4:40 in a mile then I will declare myself ignorant." He needs to get called on the fact that he didn't do this, and cannot do this now, or at any time in the future, even given ideal conditions and adequate time.

Jason Rahm and Hobie Call need to race the St. George Marathon and settle this once and for all. I would pony up a good chunk of cash to fund these two idiots' training for a year just to see their arrogance and foolishness demolished.

To the guy above,

How do we "know" that losing 40 lbs of body weight doesn't work?

Truths and falses wrote:

To the guy above,

How do we "know" that losing 40 lbs of body weight doesn't work?

Just to pick at nits, has anyone ever been 40 lbs overweight, lost 40 lbs and then run under, say 2:20?

In theory, I would guess that Ryan Hall could pork up by 40lbs, lose the weight, and come back under 2:20, but I doubt anyone with the potential to run under 2:20 has ever actually done this.

It would be an interesting experiment anyway.

Empiricist wrote:

Truths and falses wrote:

To the guy above,

How do we "know" that losing 40 lbs of body weight doesn't work?

Just to pick at nits, has anyone ever been 40 lbs overweight, lost 40 lbs and then run under, say 2:20?

In theory, I would guess that Ryan Hall could pork up by 40lbs, lose the weight, and come back under 2:20, but I doubt anyone with the potential to run under 2:20 has ever actually done this.

It would be an interesting experiment anyway.

That's too unrealistic. How are we going to find enough 2:20 people to do that?

All we need is for some people on here to:

1) run a mile/5k with different weights

2) other people or the same people to lose 10 lbs and run a mile/5k

Then we will see how much gaining/losing/backpacking weight affects running times.

I tried running my workout with a 15 lbs. vest today.....I was surprised by how much difficulty it added. That isn't to say that it translates directly to a WR marathon, but there is no denying running a 4:40 mile with 40 lbs. is a tremendous feat. Hobie if you read this, do you have a video of your 4:40 mile? I have seen the video of your lunge mile (which I think translates even less to a WR attempt).

Truths and falses wrote:

To the guy above,

How do we "know" that losing 40 lbs of body weight doesn't work?

Excellent question. Henry Rono.

Also, many, many Kenyans over the years who have gone home after the track season, stopped training, gained a bunch of weight, and lost the excess weight through training. None of them ever got into 2hr marathon shape, and I'd bet almost none of them were slower than Mr. Call.

turk the jerk wrote:

I tried running my workout with a 15 lbs. vest today.....I was surprised by how much difficulty it added. That isn't to say that it translates directly to a WR marathon, but there is no denying running a 4:40 mile with 40 lbs. is a tremendous feat. Hobie if you read this, do you have a video of your 4:40 mile? I have seen the video of your lunge mile (which I think translates even less to a WR attempt).

How many seconds did the 15 lbs add to your times?

Truths and falses wrote:

Empiricist wrote:

Just to pick at nits, has anyone ever been 40 lbs overweight, lost 40 lbs and then run under, say 2:20?

In theory, I would guess that Ryan Hall could pork up by 40lbs, lose the weight, and come back under 2:20, but I doubt anyone with the potential to run under 2:20 has ever actually done this.

It would be an interesting experiment anyway.

That's too unrealistic. How are we going to find enough 2:20 people to do that?

All we need is for some people on here to:

1) run a mile/5k with different weights

2) other people or the same people to lose 10 lbs and run a mile/5k

Then we will see how much gaining/losing/backpacking weight affects running times.

Ben St. Lawrence stopped running, gained 50 pounds, lost it, and is now a 27:24 10K runner.

Justin Ricks had greater weight loss and is a 2:22 marathoner.

Both of these guys are evidence of the 2 second per pound rule. There was also a guy in the early 80s that lost a ton of weight and qualified for the OT in the marathon. I recall reading about him in Sports Illustrated when I was a kid. I am sure there have been others.

I want to point out from my post above that what Hobie Call claims he can do is the opposite of St. Lawrence and Ricks. These guys lost weight which was hindering them from reaching their potential. Hobie has reached his potential and claims adding weight in training will let him go beyond his potential.

Not sure if this has been posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMD7EzkRcMQ

I like that he claims he would do it now but needs to continue obstacle racing to pay bills...there's money in obstacle racing? wtf?? if he can get to 2:05, I'd bet he'll do ok financially and breaking a wr let alone 2h, will set him up for life. He's no wiser economically than he is about his running potential.

theohiostate wrote:

Not sure if this has been posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMD7EzkRcMQ

Wow, Spartan racing. Somehow even sillier than I thought it was-- although the fake machine guns are a nice touch. And that performance with a 10 lb. vest doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the idea that he's going to run a 28:30 10k with a 14 lb. vest on. Not that I had any confidence in that anyway.

common wrote:

1) We all agree the weight-vest training method is insane, and won't work, but so far, I haven't seen a really good dismantling of Call's hypothesis with some scientific support for why it doesn't work. We know it doesn't work for someone who is 40 pounds overweight, and gradually loses the weight, and that is essentially what Call is doing,

False.

A weight vest is not the same as somebody weighing 40 pounds more -- so it does not make sense to use pace calculators that are based on body mass associations with pace.

Over the course of the year that Call runs with a weight vest, he is entirely more fit than someone similar to him who had an extra 40 pounds of (mostly) fat and then loses.

Think about the stress of the cardiovascular system that still has to maintain the extra body weight, and has been damaged accordingly by being in that state in the first place.

Next, there is no requirement to "dismantle" someone else's hypothesis. The onus is on him to prove it to us. Not to mention, his goals aren't scientifically derived: they are entirely arbitrary. Why 2:00 and not 2:01 or 2:02, or 1:50 or some other arbitrary number?

I appreciate the Dwight Schrute response. I understand your point, and I'm inclined to agree that a weight vest versus natural weight are very different the more I think about it.

While you're correct that there is no "requirement" to dismantle his hypothesis, in this case, someone has to. Mr. Call has no intention of providing the evidence himself, and if he did, it may well work against his ultimate goal, which appears to be getting famous for doing and saying outlandish things.

Hobie\'s back in the news!

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5091905

He's remained in the news and is still dominating races.