Sub 1:50 800m Training

cause v. effect wrote:

I knew a guy in high school who ran 1:54 for 800 while smoking, drinking, and running about 4 times per week. There were other people who trained similarly, and guess what? None of them were anywhere near his level. Steve Ovett was a world class runner, and like most world class runners he was extremely talented. He is an outlier. The real question is, how did his training change through the years that allowed him to go from a 1:47 800 runner to a 1:44/3:30 runner.

He did more mileage as he got older.

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Steve Ovett was an early developer. He was very emotionally and physically mature at a young age, about three years more developed than normal. Even so, he was only training 4 times per week when he won that European Championship 800m title in 1973 aged 17

he ran 1.51 in the heat, 1.49 in the semi and 1.47.5 in the final to be Ivo Van Damme who went on the win the Olympic Silver medal three years later and Willi Wulbeck who won the first World Championship Gold medal in 1983.

The 20x400 session that he did with his dad was actually an attempt at 40x400 but it was abandoned because it was too hard. Steve and his das then enlisted the help of Harry Wilson as coach and the training became much less although the sessions were very fast, then mileage initially was low. The issue of training 4x per week in 1973 is somewhere on the BMC website, it's not in either Ovett's biography or Wilson's book Running my way.

I got to shoot the breeze with one of Ovett's training crew from Brighton and they trained their nards off. 90-100 mile weeks, 12-13 runs per week, brutal intervals over hills....He was an "early bloomer" and thus the success at 17 but the move from 147 to 143 and 330 was due to Kenyan-like training...

Anyone who is running sub 1:55, post your races and let us know how it is going and what you are doing to get better. Indoor Championship season in the States....Aussie outdoors..

well i was doing well but i seemed to have either strained something in my outside calf...

last decent workout i had was a 5x1000 w/ 1min rest

319 324 321 323 321 then 4x200 33 33 30 26

i give up on this running thing, im always getting hurt and idk why

JColeman wrote:

well i was doing well but i seemed to have either strained something in my outside calf...

last decent workout i had was a 5x1000 w/ 1min rest

319 324 321 323 321 then 4x200 33 33 30 26

i give up on this running thing, im always getting hurt and idk why

Dude, I feel for you, man.

Don't throw in the towel completely, not yet. You're still very young. This thing can be sorted out, but maybe it takes time and perspective.

Check out info (google?)on low back problems, ITB, peroneals,gluteus medius, hip flexors. See if anything rings a bell.

My feeling is that you might have weaker lower leg (ankle?) and lateral hip stabilisers on your affected side. Probably glute firing issues.

Check out also your standing alignment in front of the mirror, in the buff on your own. Look at front and side profiles. Are you imbalanced in any way?

Technically speaking, do you notice any diference in sensation when each foot strikes the ground? Are you putting your weight more to one side than the other? Are you landing under your hips or in front?

Check back with us as you work on this.....

now that you mention about the back, my lower back has been bothering me on and off...not while i run, but sometimes when just standing or sitting...

its feeling good now, but i have taken about 3 weeks off. I jsut ran 2 miles and felt good, but now afterwards, i'm feeling some tightness in the area...

JColeman,

If u r interested, do take a look at the contents in the above 2 links. For the second link, yo can ignore the running technique discussion if you are anti-Pose, but do check out the exercise that the article recommends for the TFL/ITB. It has saved my running career.

My suspicion is that you have chronically tight tensor fascia lata (TFL)and ITB on the same side as your affected calf. This has resulted in a lowered pelvis on that side and this inhibits the glutes from firing. The low back and hamstrings on that same side are forced to compensate and this overworks them.

Your calf problem could be due to nerve impingement due to low back disc compression from overstraining the musculature there, OR inhibited piriformis/glute max due to tight TFL, which locks on the sciatic nerve, or maybe BOTH.

Sorry, I cant recall whether you have the problem on the left or the right. If its the left, chances are it is due to excessive track curve running. Other posible causes are poor posture standing/seated, prolonged sitting/inactivity.

(Sorry to the rest of the guys on the thread; dont mean to make this an injury discussion; jus wanna help the kid get well asap and roll onto sub 1:50 800m training!)

thanks a lot

Bump

I am debating on how to approach training for a collegiate 400m/800m runner in the fall. I almost feel like cross country training for an 8k/10k may not be the right way to go (of course many athletes can handle different things). Maybe a modified version of some of the fartleks and tempos mixed in with speed work and strength training. Anyone with experience with these types of athletes?

bump

what's everyones mileage at eh?

still hitting the hills and weight room eh?

still banging out the long runs eh?

I've actually been hurt and doing a lot of cross training (mostly sitting upright on a stationary bike, occasionally doing ellipticals). It was sore shins and achilles but it's really just been one thing after another these past months, a lot of injuries in common with JColeman. Been doing some soul-searching on why I get hurt so easily, trying to think about my form. I'd been told a number of times my mechanics look great, but that was in 400m training... maybe I'm doing distance running wrong.

Trying to peak for some races in early to mid May, so the timing is pretty frustrating as I'm behind on my track work. Lots of success stories on this site for cross training through injuries and coming back to PR, but I think that's for longer distance events. I'm starting to run again, every other day on a soccer field with some striding and jogging. So far so good.

Anyone have advice or experience on coming back from injuries at this point in the season for this event, the 800? Alterations to workouts/sequencing, mileage adjustments, fluff you had to just cut out etc etc... I'm going to have to compactify a lot this coming month.

Make that 2 1:48's(Both 2x All Americans), 1:50, 2 1:51's, and a 1:53 guy Indoors...... 1:54-1:55 might not cut it. But do respect that you want to wear your school colors

As an 800m guy, I'm at the right school, but you are right anything less then a 1:52 won't cut it. I guess our 800m guys are almost as good as our basketball teams...

I've also been injured, fitness is coming along day by day. There have been a few good workouts on and off the track, days where I feel like I could run 1:52-1:53. However, there are also days where my legs are tight and sore and I feel like 2:00 would be a struggle. Guess a month off will do that. Some days the speed is there, some days it isn't.

Still not sure whether I should race in the track this year or start building for xc...I'm definitely on the upswing compared to 2 months ago, but it is not longer early in the season and with my teams depth in the event I might be better off focusing on XC where a 25:30-26:00 would help out the team, as opposed to just another 800 guy in the mid 1:50's. There's an invitational this Saturday and another one two weeks after that, but I doubt runners can just show up...and when I've emailed him the coach hasn't exactly been helpful. Any non-asshole advice? (I know that's asking a lot on this forum...)

FOR CHRIST'S SAKE YOU HAVE NEVER RUN EVEN CLOSE TO SUB 2 OR SUB 26 FOR 8K! COMPLETE A RACE, THEN YOU CAN TALK ABOUT WHAT KIND OF SHAPE YOU MIGHT BE IN! GOD YOU'RE STUPID.

Just find a freaking race that allows unattached runners and finish a race.

If you do have problems similar to those of JColeman, then I would say take a look at your hips/knees/feet positioning when you run.

Are they close together or far apart? Are your adductors activated to maintain that alignment of your knees such that they point to the direction you are going? If you do this you will feel your transverse abdominus activated and your entire core engaged, much like what Old Sub4 had described earlier on about "hips forward" running. You will also feel more compact and stable overall, with the stability coming chiefly from the core area rather than the hips/glutes/legs, which are mobilising your run.

If your knees and feet spread apart too much then the load goes to them predominantly, and you are making the mobilisers do the work of stabilising.

If you watch videos of Seb Coe or El G you will see them keeping everything centred in their midsection, enabling their limbs and hips to rotate and move freely. This is the key to their fleet-footedness, as opposed to heavy pounding footstrikes accompanied by severe pronation/supination.

But its tough to execute. If you have done core work your core is strong and stable, but its quite another thing to translate all that to the actual running.

If you are looking for a comeback that lasts, my advice is to be willing to lose your ego and go slower (if necessary) but with attention to better form. I feel one can still run fast reps at this point but keep the recovery more than adequate, and volume low. If you try short reps with short rests run for feeling rather than for set times, focusing on good form.

I think the 800 is an event where you can get by with a compacted program if coming back from injury. Obviously it is better to have a standard base etc, but I would suggest something along the following for quick results; 3k tempo run plus strides one day; 4x1000m@5k pace another day, 2 easy days; the main workouts could be 4-5 x 600m reducing in speed and number down to 2@race pace and 5-6 x300m @90.

I did something similar one summer with pretty good results.

Geoffrey, here's a list of meets that allow unattached athletes. You simply enter online at directathletics.com. You don't need to ask a coach. You enter online, show up, pay your money, and run.

April 4 - Wagner College Invitational - Staten Island, NY

April 4 - Fitchburg State Jim Sheen Invitational - MA

April 10 - New York Relays - New York City, NY

April 11 - Northeastern Bernard Solomon Invitational - Boston, MA

April 11 - UMASS Lowell George Davis Invitational - MA

April 18 - Fitchburg State Spring Invitational - MA

May 9 - NYC Qualifying Challenge - New York City, NY

Not sure if these are on directathletics, but they also allow all-comers:

May 23 - Boston High Performance Series - Boston, MA

June 6 - Boston High Performance Series - Boston, MA

June 13 - Boston High Performance Series - Boston, MA

June 20 - USATF Metro Outdoor Championships - NYC, NY

June 21 - USATF New England Outdoor Championships - Boston, MA

You have no excuse to not race in one or more of these meets.

Hey fUrCeOsNhN I was looking through this post an noticed you were trying to get into the meet here on saturday? You can register for the meet at

http://www.plattsys.com/results/res2009/uconn4m.htm

The deadline on the site says WED. I know in years past you could just show up day of an enter but I wouldnt chance it

Because of the whole title IX BS and being under funded there are not to many roster spots left so dont get discouraged if you run a good time and dont make the cut keep at it.