Sub 1:50 800m Training

I can't say it any better than this:

I´m again in St.Moritz, reading Letsrun from the internet of Hotel Laudinella. I apologyze if sometime I am not to much precise, but I write at 2 by night, without reading again what I wrote. I went to read again what I wrote, and I found my mistake : I wrote faster, when I had to write slower. For example, in the case of Gebre (12:39),the time per km is 2:32 (15.2 every 100m), and 98% is 15.5 per 100m (2:35 per km is 7:45 for 3 km).

But you must not think of the type of workout (that is clearly over the Threshold, and can reach 11 - 13 mmol for a top runner well trained), but of the EFFECT of this training. The question was : what type of training do you use for improving AnT ? The answer is : a lot of run that we can check between 95 and 105 % of the speed of the race.

I want to describe, for example, one type of training that Gianni Ghidini (the current coach of Bungei, Yiampoy and Kamal) and me use with these guys during the last period, having the goal to IMPROVE SPECIFIC ENDURANCE, developing intensity from the Threshold to Specific Endurance.

1) 6 x 600m (rec. 4 min) in 1:28 (60/28) 1:28 (60/28) 1:27 (60/27) 1:27 (60/27) 1:26 (60/26) 1:26 (60/26)

2) (about 10 days later) 5 x 600 (rec. 5 min) in 1:26 (60/26) 1:25 (59/26) 1:25 (59/26) 1:24 (59/25) 1:24 (59/25)

3) (about 10 days later) 4 x 600 (rec. 6 min) in 1:23 (57/26) 1:22 (57/25) 1:21 (57/24) 1:20 (56/24)

4) (about 10 days later, in the case of Bungei 8 days before Zurich) 3 x 600 (rec. 8 min) in 1:19.3 (54.2/25.1) 1:19.5 (54.6/24.9) 1:17.2 (53.0/24.2)

The next workout (before OG) will be 2 x 600 (rec. 10 min) in 1:16 (52/24).

This type of work starts about 2 months before the main event, having the goal of supporting AnT. After the first two sessions, when we test the speed at a level of lactate of 6 mmol, we can find an improvement of about 5-8 sec, per km. After the first two sessions, the focus of this training is the improvement of SPECIFIC ENDURANCE, joined with the capacity of increasing speed in the final of the race. The 5th workout is very specific,lactate reaches a level of 16-18 mmol, but in any case is an evolution of the first workout.

The normal use of groups of short distances increasing the speed every test, is a good way for increasing the AnT in aspecialist of 800 or 1500m. For example, 4 groups of 3 x 300m in 42/40/38 with 2 min recovery (and 5 min between the sets), or 4 groups of 3 x 600min 1:33/1:30/1:27 rec. 2 min and 5min, for specialists of 800 and 1500/3000m respectively, are workouts very good for increasing the AnT.

But what is important to remember, is that every distance needs a specific Aerobic Support, that is not the real AnT. For example, in the case of 3000 SC/5000, we can create a MAX LASS (Maximum Lactate Steady State) of 6/8 min at a level of 11-13 mmol of lactate, and the AnT that we need is the speed at a level of 8 mmol about. So, don`t pay attention at the CONVENTIONAL THRESHOLD of 4 mmol,because is something for physiologists, but really in many case doesn´t mean anything.

I try to write the level of lactate that you must use like AEROBIC SUPPORT for the specific workouts in different events :

800m 8-12 mmol

1500m 7-10

5000m 6-8

10000m 5-7

HM 4-5

Mar 4

and:

Still different the situation for a specialist of 800m. In this case, we must understand if the athlete is a sprinter (Konchellah, Juantorena, Mutua), a full 800m runner (Kipketer, Bungei, Sepeng) or a middle-distance runner (Coe, Cram, Yiampoy). In any case, the phylosophy of training is the same : to use short tests (300-600m) for a total amount of 3-4 km, at the pace of 90-95% of the pace of the race (for an athlete running 1:44, 13.0 pace every 100m, 90% is a pace of 14.3 (600m in 1:25.8) and 95% is a pace of 13.65 (300m in 41.0), increasing step by step number of repetitions, cutting recovery time. In these cases, long run has only the mean of regeneration, and is not important for the final goal.

So the progression would be:

1) 6 x 600m (rec. 4 min) @85-8%

2) (about 10 days later) 5 x 600 (rec. 5 min)@88-90%

3) (about 10 days later) 4 x 600 (rec. 6 min) @92-95%

4) (about 10 days later) 3 x 600 (rec. 8 min) @96-98%

The next workout (before OG) will be 2 x 600 (rec. 10 min) @100%

I love this post and the direction it is taking debating some of Canova's ideas. I've actually always wondered if his percentages of a specific race pace were geared towards the athlete's current ability or the desired performance time.

Anyway though thats not really my point for posting right now. I want to get some insight from some of you on how you feel these concepts might differ when working with females rather than males.

Some of you debate the need for 100 mpw or somewhere between 40-60 with a male 800 meter runner. Where do you feel a female 800 runner should maximize her miles per week?

Have any of you coached women and men and have any specific differences you've found?

A truly elite male 800m distance trained runner would probably do 75-85 mpw for most of the year. This is consistant with Oldsub4, Nixon Kiprotich, and runners training under Ron Warhurst. So probably 50-65 would be the equivalent for a woman, maybe I'm being a little cautious there though. Note however that most runners will fall short of this ideal volume due to past training loads, injuries, or anything else that limits what they can handle. Also some quality work is needed throughout the year, there is not phase (aside from maybe the first 4-6 weeks when you are building mileage and getting used to running) when quality of some sort cannot help an 800m runner accomplish his/her training goals.

I wish I could help you, but as of now most of my experience is in strength & conditioning. Too many track coaches get away with things that they would be fired for on the spot in S&C.

More Renato:

What does mean Anaerobic Training ? If you think that every type of training over the Threshold is the same, you make a big mistake. We have different goals for different anaerobic training :

a) SPEED (duration till 15.0) : of sure is anaerobic, but (for example in very short sprint climbing) the quantity of lactate that you produce is very little, so you can recover in very short time. This is a type of training that doesn't have any bad influence on Aerobic training, on the contrary, if you use many short repetitions with very short recovery (1:00 / 1:30) (for ex., 6 x 60m at 98% of your max speed) can help your fast fibres in working in oxydative way. This is a good way for training Fast Fibers for increasing their Aerobic ability. For ex., Gebrselassie used this type of training very frequently.

b) SPEED (duration till 40.0 / 45.0) : In a single test, you have the expression of your max LACTIC POWER if you run a competition. If you use to run at 90% of your max speed, you produce a good quantity of lactate, but you can recovery completely (under your Threshold) in a time lasting from 4 to 8 min, depending on your attitude and vyour training. For example, if you are an athlete able running 800m in 2:00 and 400m in 54.0, your best in 300m can be about 38.5 / 39.0. In this case, to reduce your speed of 10% it means (I repeat, this is not mathematics, but is an easy way for giving the percentages in athletics) 39.0 + 3.9 = 43.0 about. In this case, you run faster than your speed of 800m, but you don't have a very big accumulation of lactate. Your recovery time depends on 2 factors : your AEROBIC POWER (or your Threshold level) and your ability in lactate tolerance. In this case, a right combination between Aerobic training at high intensity (from 95 to 105% of your Threshold, running a little bit faster than your Threshold is necessary for improving your Aerobic Power)and Anaerobic Training at low intensity is the key for increasing your lactate tolerance.

c) SPEED (duration from 40.0 /45.0, like before) : If you run at 98% of your max (in the previous case, 39.0 + 0.8, about 40.0), your production of lactate is higher, and the accumulation in your fibres too. The final goal is different : you run for improving your ability in PRODUCING LACTATE (Anaerobic CAPACITY). This is a dangerous type of training, if there is not support enough from the Aerobic System.

So, the stair that you have to use is this one :

a) ALACTIC SPEED (goal : to increase your Nervous ability, your Rapidity, your Technique) : Lasting no longer than 10.0 - Execution at max intensity, using hills better than flat courses.

b) SHORT SPEED ENDURANCE, with repetitions at 95/98% of max intensity, lasting no longer than 10.0 and short recovery (ex : 6 x 60m rec.1:00) (goal : to increase the oxydative ability of your fast fibres)

c) SPEED (lasting till 20/25.0) having the goal to increase your ability in max speed under the point of view of Nervous Cohordination and Nervous Endurance, using single test with very long recovery (sometime good also for distance runners)

d) SPEED ENDURANCE (repetitions at 90/95% on distance till 150m for 800m runners, 400m for 10k runners) with short (but not VERY SHORT) recovery (for ex., 3/4 min) having the goal to increase your Anaerobic Capacity at high speed). The system for evolving this training is TO USE THE SAME SPEEDS and THE SAME VOLUME, trying to reduce your recovery times, in order to improve your lactate tolerance

e) TRAINING FOR ANAEROBIC POWER (is your ability in running faster possible distances from 300m to 600m, depending on your event). You must run at max intensity, this is a training but also a test, and the competition is a training too. Your goal are to become able to produce more lactate (for example, if you run 300m in 38.0 with 12mmol, the most important limiting factor is that youe engine doesn't have POWER enough. So you must become able to produce 15mmol, and when you are able, you can run in 36.5). If you are a sprinter, 300m is the longer distance that you can use for this goal. If you are a distance runner, 500-600m are better.

In this case, you can investigate your specific attitude in becoming a longer runner, controlling the correlation coefficient between your PB in 300 and 600m. If you have a young runner, you can, for ex, finding two different types of athletes (when are not still prepared) :

a) The boy (15y. old) runs 42 and 1:30 (600),so 14.0 for each 100m in 300 and 15.0 in 600. The correlation is 93,33%. THIS GUY HAS HIGH PERCENTAGE OF SLOW FIBRES AND FAST of II Type, so his attitude is TO HAVE A GOOD TOLERANCE TO HIS LACTATE. In this case, the main type of his training must be, in the future, around his speed of 800m, and he can look for 1500m in 3-4 years. This athlete must not use too much absolute speed regarding ANAEROBIC CAPACITY, but sometimes max. speed for increasing his ANAEROBIC POWER. His training is for increasing ANAEROBIC RESISTANCE, strictly connected with the Threshold Levels.

So, SPEED in connected with the percentage of your max speed, but, longer is the distance, bigger is the quantity of lactate that you can accumulate in your fibres. What is really dangerous is to accumulate too much lactate, without having the ability to remove in short time.

ANAEROBIC POWER : your ability in using for short time your engine at max no. of revolutions (single test, and you have to reach the higher lactate level possible)

ANAEROBIC CAPACITY : your ability in PRODUCING a high quantity of lactate. System for training this ability is to run not many repetitions (may be 3-4 times) at 95% of max intensity, with medium recovery time (4/6 min). This is connected with your Anaerobic Power.

ANAEROBIC RESISTANCE : your ability in TOLERANCE of your lactate. Systen for training this ability is to run many repetitions (may be 10-15 times) at a level from 100 to 105% of your AnThreshold, with short recovery (may be 1:00 / 2:00). This is connected with your AEROBIC POWER.

AEROBIC POWER : your ability in removing very quickly the lactate that can produce, running fast. A combined training in the area An Resistance / Aerobic Power can help you in growing your Threshold. You can uselong fast continuous run from 20 to 40min, depending on your event, and long intervals (from 1000m to 3000m) at speed a little faster than your Threshold with very short recovery

AEROBIC ENDURANCE : your ability in staying long time at the level of your Threshold. For specialists of HM, the full time of HM is a mark of their AE. For increasing this ability, the only way is to run FAST long time.

AEROBIC RESISTANCE : Is all the long run at low intensity. This training has only a GENERAL mean. The speed that you use for developing this ability, in 2-3 years must become the same that you use, at your beginning, for developing Aerobic Endurance, so every speed moves higher.

In too many cases you mix up SPEED and LENGTH, thinking that if you go for 200m is speed. Speed depends on your speed, not on the distance. 200m slow are 200m slow, nothing to do with Anaerobic Workout.

This is in line with Prof. Yuri Verkhoshansky's anti-periodization theme with the Block Training System.

When an athlete is tired, we have to change his training, depending on the period of preparation. Our behavior must be different if we are during GENERAL PERIOD or during SPECIFIC PERIOD. During General Period we must take care of our INTERNAL LOAD. This means that the most important thing is the level of the ANSWER of every athlete to the training proposal, not the objective result of his training. For example, if I plan for an athlete 10 x 1000m in 3:00 with 200m jogging in 1:30 of recovery, and I suppose that this training is at 90% of his effort, but there are reason (cold, wind, personal problems in his job, beginning of a sickness, etc...) that don't allow him to run in 3:00 but in 3:10 with the same level of personal effort, the athlete must do his training running 3:10, because his internal load is the same. During General Period we must work for increasing the qualities of the athlete : strength, resistance, cohordination, rapidity. In this period, the athlete must work very hard, also if feels tired.

About 2-3 months before the main goal of the season (for example, for athletes sure to go to World Championships in Osaka, starting from beginning of June), we change our philosophy of training, starting with the SPECIAL PERIOD (lasting about 4-5 weeks) followed by the SPECIFIC PERIOD (lasting about 6-7 weeks). The difference between the two periods is that during the SPECIAL we begin to put in training exercises, speed and distances connected with the event that we want to prepare, during the SPECIFIC we go to prepare the event in more targetted way. During these two periods, we must look for the EXTERNAL LOAD. This means that we must respect the EXACT SPEED THAT WE WANT TO PREPARE. For building a performance, external load is mathematic. For example, if I want to prepare my athlete for running 5000m in 12:45 (it means 2:33 every km), we must use a lot of intervals at a speed of 15.3 every 100m, or between 14.5 and 16.0, for specialising biomechanic and methabolism of the athlete in optimizing this type of speed. We can use essentially distance connected with the event, not shorter than 400m (56.0 >`` 58.0) and not longer than 2000 (5:05 %%< 5:20), for global volumes not inferior of 1.5 time of the full distance (7.5 km) and not superior of the double (10 km). In this period, if the athlete, for some reason, is not able to run the specific speed, it's better than he can reduce his training for 1-2 days, in order to become able to use the correct quality. During SPECIFIC TRAINING THE ABILITY TO RESPECT THE SPEED IS VERY IMPORTANT : if the athlete is not able, it means that is not able to run fast as we planned.

Aerobic power is the aerobic base of intensity, useful for every particular event. In my opinion, it's wrong to speak of "SPEED" as something of objective, the same to speak of "AEROBIC POWER". It's obvious that speed for a specialist of 800m or for a Marathon runner are two different thing. For me, every speed 10% faster then the speed of the event is FULL SPEED. For example, for an 800m runner (1:44), having a speed of 13.0 every 100m, 10% of the time is 1.3, so speed 10% faster is 13.0 - 1.3 = 11.7. We don't need faster speed in training, under bioenergetic point of view. May be that we use, sometime, faster speed (for example, repetitions of 60m at full speed), but this is for mechanical reasons, and is not the most important part of training. THE PHILOSOPHY IS TO EXTEND THE ABILITY TO LAST AT THE SPEED OF THE RACE, so we have to train using, mainly, speeds between 95% and 105% of the speed of the race, of course with different distances. In this case, we can use these types of training :

a) SPEED (biomechanical goals) : from 60m to 150m, full speed (very few repetitions)

b) HIGH SPEED ENDURANCE : distances from 100 to 400m, speed at 105% (in the case of 1:44, it means for example 4 sets of 5 x 100m in 12.2, rec. 1:30 between tests, 5:00 between sets, or 2 sets of 5 x 200m in 24.4, rec. 2:00 among tests and 5:00 among sets, or 2 sets of 3 x 300m in 36.5, rec. 2:00 / 5:00, or 2 couples of 400m in 49.0, rec. 3:00 among test, 6:00 among sets)

c) SPECIFIC SPEED ENDURANCE : distances from 300 to 600m at the speed of the race (for example, 3 sets of 3 x 300m in 39.0, rec. 1:00 among test, 4:00 between sets, or 5 x 400m in 52.0 rec. 3:00, or 4 x 500 in 1:05 rec. 4:00, or 3 x 600 in 1:18 rec. 6:00)

d) LOW SPEED ENDURANCE : distances from 600 and 800m, at a speed of 95% (in this case, 13.85 every 100m), for example 600 / 800 / 800 / 600m rec. 6:00, in 1:23 and 1:51

e) SPECIFIC AEROBIC POWER : distances from 800 to 1000, total volume 3 - 4 times the distance of the race double of the distance of the race, at 90% of speed (in this case, 13.0 + 1.3 = 14.3), for example 4 x 1000 in 2:23 rec. 6:00

f) BASIC AEROBIC POWER : distances from 1000 to 2000m at 80% of the speed of the race (in this case, 13.0 + 2.6 = 15.6) for a global volume of 5-7 times the distance of the race (for example, 1600 / 1400 / 1200 / 1000, rec. 4:00, in 4:10, 3:38, 3:06, 2:35)

g) GENERAL AEROBIC POWER : distances from 2000m to 6000m, at a speed of 70/75% (about 16.5 verey 100m, 66.0 per lap). For example, 2 x 3000 in 8:15 rec. 5:00, or 5000m in 13:45.

(Renato)

[quote]Feminity wrote:

I love this post and the direction it is taking debating some of Canova's ideas. I've actually always wondered if his percentages of a specific race pace were geared towards the athlete's current ability or the desired performance time.

The desiered performance. This way not only works best from the standpoint of biological adaptation (vs. Multi-pace training), but allows one to set a goal and go out and acheive it and have a basic idea of their progression. The only restricting variable is time available between the start of training and the main goal.

regarding 800m periodization, what are some ideas out there? the way i see it, there are 3 ways to arrange training;

1) long to short: the traditional buildup. just mileage for a period then introduce some speed and reduce mileage blah blah blah.

2) ends to middle: start with LONG long runs and really fast speed work and gradually reduce the long runs (but increase pace) and increase distance and/or volume of speed work so at the end of the season you're centering around race pace.

3) short to long: introduce speed and lower mileage first and get fitter and fitter over each cycle with increased workload to hold that speed for longer distance.

I personally go with the short to long method. In my mind the most important thing is running at race pace. I'll start with 100's (maybe 6x8x100) at goal 800m pace in high volume early in the season and gradually increase the distance i'm running at race pace so at the end of the season i'm running something like 2x600 ro 3x400 or whatever.

I believe an 800m runner must have regular SESSIONS (strides and "power work" don't cut it) at race pace throughout the year. This isn't just me; look at what Joe Rubio preaches. Again, 100's aren't that stressfull, and I can get a HIGH VOLUME at race pace (3miles worth at race pace) and get my muscles efficient at race pace.

Now of course, your not gonna race your best 800 off of 100m repeats, you're gonna need the killer 400-600's at race pace and many races. But in the preseason, lets get the muscles prepared for this work. Look at Spivey training; "floating" while running at race pace.

wait a sec wrote:

flow wrote:

So instead of running for 1 hour at a certain pace (best aerobic pace) he would find out how far it took to run that hour and mark it. Next time the goal is to reach that marked point faster. So this is a specific way to gradually increase intensity one step on from steady paced running. Fartlek could well be the next step.

I thought that during the base phase it was supposed to be the same effort but the times came down on their own, without any additional effort.

yes i think that is the first stage of it - define the effort level and simply go for an hour. You will get faster and faster doing this for some time.

Eventually this will start to plateau and as it is doing so start moving into stage 2 - the distance based runs.

Eventually all the 1 hour best paced aerobic runs will be replaced by the distance based runs prior to the dedicated hill phase.

As i see it anyway

Hi, i'm hoping i can give you a picture through the story of this woman i have begun coaching in April of this year (ie after domestic season in Southern Hemisphere)

She is 43 years old and has been running middle distance since being a teenager. She has had a fantastic coach who i much admire for most of that time. Unfortunately he died of asbestos poisoning at 82 (worked in asbestos factory in his 50s). Up till his 70s he could still sprint the 100m in 15-16 seconds.

Anyway he developed his own system he called 'charts' which, based on specific timetrials in week one of any phase, would determine paces to be run in each set of each workout. There were hill charts and track charts. There was no long running except incidentally or in XC races over Winter.

So she came to me after a year following her coaches death and it took me a month to convince her about the benefits of long steady running. So she began on a program that is pretty much based on how i understand Lydiard's method.

She began and started with about 40 kms per week and no charts. By week 12 she had crested 100kms per week at varying paces (ie best aerobic pace, easy pace, recovery pace) as well as regular strides and some strength training to address weaknesses.

After 16 weeks she did her first 90min continuous run and now at week 24 she has done a couple of 2 hour runs and has crested 130kms in a week. 3 more weeks to go in base preparation and the hills are frequent in the long runs - next step dedicated hill phase.

The results - lifetime personal bests over 4kms by 45 seconds, 6 kms by 1 minute, 8 kms by 2 minutes, 12 kilometers by 3 minutes and 10 miles by 4 minutes and half marathon never attempted before in 86mins. All whilst building her aerobic steadily.

She is spinning in ecstacy and is so keen for the season to start. With lifetime PR's of 2:16 for the 800m and 4:42 for the 1500m all from her late 20s she is already convinced they are gone. I hope so as she totally deserves it after her excellent preparation.

Hope this helps somewhat

It will be interesting to follow. My first reaction is that it is way too much distance and time for her level and 800/1500.

I do not disagree with the basic tenet of a lengthy base build up, but I think 60 min is more than enough for a long run for her.

I have some experience with women at this level and don't be surprised when she cannot run 65 sec for 400 without it being close to max effort. Good luck though and post periodically.

A higher mileage program with a longer base period may be the way to go given her age 43.

She has already reached her absolute speed potential,especially seeing she came from more of a speed based program. Now her improvements are likely to come from being better able to redline her max running efforts.

another canuck wrote:

It will be interesting to follow. My first reaction is that it is way too much distance and time for her level and 800/1500.

I do not disagree with the basic tenet of a lengthy base build up, but I think 60 min is more than enough for a long run for her.

I have some experience with women at this level and don't be surprised when she cannot run 65 sec for 400 without it being close to max effort. Good luck though and post periodically.

sure ta but a fraction more background first

pb 400m 62.3 many years ago - last season pb 64.4

last season 1500m pb 4.49 and 800m 2:21

the long running built very slowly as it had to so she could adjust and we only went up a level when the previous level was solid.

the program runs in 3 week cycles and every third week is lighter and faster and contains some testing such as a 4km trial and a 1000m trial on the track and we have tried one or two 300m trials.

Also she does a stairs session weekly and in the third week we test it with a max effort.

Anthony Colotti wrote:

[quote]Feminity wrote:

I love this post and the direction it is taking debating some of Canova's ideas. I've actually always wondered if his percentages of a specific race pace were geared towards the athlete's current ability or the desired performance time.

The desired performance. This way not only works best from the standpoint of biological adaptation (vs. Multi-pace training), but allows one to set a goal and go out and acheive it and have a basic idea of their progression. The only restricting variable is time available between the start of training and the main goal.

i'm coming from the perspective of education when i wonder about the above paragraph.

The desired performance seems to be a guess if the current situation is not known. Surely coaching is taking someone from where they are at to where they can possibly go and not just focusing on the end point of the process ie the goal. This is fraught with danger as almost all injuries seem to occur when there isn't correct adapation from where you are at to where you wish to go.

The only restricting variable is time? I don't think that this is close to being true. The other restricting variables are how stuck one is in their current situation and how effective the means (coaching methods) are in traversing the path from now till then. Are these Canova's words or your own Mr Colotti?

i'm posting too often but mainly in the hope that someone can critique what i am saying so i can refine my own thinking more.

referring back to the 43 year old who i will call Dee.

in about the third month of training i finally realised i should query what is happening in her recovery runs. This was a mistake of mine and would not have happened if i had been present at any of these recovery runs. It may also not have occurred if i had been clearer in my explanantions.

What happened was this - the recovery run was set between 120 and 130bpm and within this range she was meant to find a specific level of intensity which caused her breathing to draw more deeply. It is a specific point in everyone and does vary day to day depending on the myriad of variables influencing the runner.

Anyway this idea was lost and instead she went by her own internal feel of how much effort she was putting in. Over time her HR went from say 125 in these runs to about 95 when i discovered what was happening. Yet she was working at the same effort level as when her HR was at 125. She was fitter. In order to correct this we needed to get back up into the recovery range and so proceeded to do so over a couple of weeks. Now she sits at 125 and is progressively covering more distance with each recovery run.

Naturally this affects the intensity levels above in an uplifting way.

The BASELINE is being RESET.

Since the baseline CAN be reset a comment like this from Lydiard

"champions are everywhere, they just need to be trained properly"

rings true for me but cannot be understood if the assumption is that the athletes baseline is set in stone - that talent is fixed and cannot be enhanced.

I realise this is posted a while back, but I think this issue of form and technique is very pertinent to fasr (and safe)800m training and competition.

Just wanna ask OldSub4 (if u r still following this thread)what your coach prescribed as generally correct running technique, and that which is 800m-specific running form.

From my understanding of what your coach does, it seems like he assigns much work on the track, even in the off-season, doing even the volume intervals frequently on the track. If this is true, then my question is, how do you avoid injuries that come from running around making left turns all the time? Doesn't this create muscle imbalances, which can lead to injury?

Does your coach actually teach a method of negotiating the curves such that injury is minimised? Or does he make the runners run in the other direction on the track also (ie. turning right on occasion)?

Unlike the longer distance runners, 800m athletes are somewhat like semi-sprinters (in my opinion) who need to spend more time on the track than others, simply because the event (like the sprints) does not have a prevalent road race equivalent. These guys are truly track-running specialists and not just plain runners.

So just how did u and your coach do to enable u to train regularly on track without making one leg shorter than the other, or getting ITBS on the inner/left leg, or shin splints, or glutes pain?

Is adopting the afore-quoted cue to run hips forward and with "catching the footstrike" with the glutes and thigh sufficient to enable a track runner to run problem-free on the curves?

Just interested to know because lots of elites seem to do tons of work on track without any problems, while less talented athletes seem to incur more hip problems when doing a certain amount of track running. Is there a secret that u can share with us? After all u trained with 1:43-44 min guys & u yourself have run 1:46 (which in my opinion is an elite timing).

OldSub4 i would like it if you could comment on what i have said as well.[quote]foomiler wrote:

Anthony Colotti wrote:

1) 6 x 600m (rec. 4 min) in 1:28 (60/28) 1:28 (60/28) 1:27 (60/27) 1:27 (60/27) 1:26 (60/26) 1:26 (60/26)

2) (about 10 days later) 5 x 600 (rec. 5 min) in 1:26 (60/26) 1:25 (59/26) 1:25 (59/26) 1:24 (59/25) 1:24 (59/25)

3) (about 10 days later) 4 x 600 (rec. 6 min) in 1:23 (57/26) 1:22 (57/25) 1:21 (57/24) 1:20 (56/24)

4) (about 10 days later, in the case of Bungei 8 days before Zurich) 3 x 600 (rec. 8 min) in 1:19.3 (54.2/25.1) 1:19.5 (54.6/24.9) 1:17.2 (53.0/24.2)

The next workout (before OG) will be 2 x 600 (rec. 10 min) in 1:16 (52/24).

Mar 4

AC, many thanks for the post, I really like the 600m units to progress into specific endurance during the sharpening phase.

I think one element of 800/1500 training that is common among the elites is the regular use of speed intervals where you change pace in the middle. This is critical since it replicates what actually happens in the race unless you are a front runner. You cant just run 200s,400s, or even 600s at constant pace...you have to do a speed up like described above.

For younger runners you can simply start with 150m of "sprint50-float50-sprint50" to help get the feeling of switching gears at near full out effort. In my experience, as a coach you need correct runners who try to go "tall" when they do this and think shifting gears means speeding up turnover and being higher on the toes--you lose power generation this way and the increased turnover ties up your legs eventually. You need to increase turnover but feel like you are sitting into a sprinter form, using the big power muscles on you leg and rump...