bangalangadanga wrote:
to summarize, "thanks for your input but not really".
well, if you want everyone to just kiss your butt all day, why didn't you just ask us to do that? Have fun running your girl into the ground!
...says the guy who suggested we start doing bi-weekly time trials. Sorry, but 90% of what you had to say made very little sense at all. I tried to reply in as courteous of a manner as possible, but its tough when you are that far off base.
Is she doing some longer reps as well as she needs more speed endurance
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Is she doing some longer reps as well as she needs more speed endurance
We've done a couple of workouts that included 800 reps at 235 or faster. Also have done a couple of workouts that incorporated 600 at 75 or faster pace.
lawguy wrote:
POMPATUS OF LOVE wrote:5:20 indoors, then injured for a good bit of the Spring. 6400 meters of intervals for a HS girl in December who is a relative newb to distance running is stupid.
Since she hasn't done anything to warrant scholarship consideration, a 6 week build up for this race was our best option. After this race, she will have a 2 week break and then back into base work. Doing a normal winter and waiting until spring to try and run fast would have meant that she'd have to end up walking on some place because most schools will be finished recruiting for this class by then.
If you think she can only run 5:20 based on the workouts discussed, then you apparently don't know what you are talking about anyway.
Keep your head in the ground big guy.
14 x 400 with 200 recovery at 4:52 pace.
^--- this is the biggest mark against you!
Where's the pudding?
you tell others that there is no need to be rude, but you are just as rude to those who dissent.
Way to make running "fun", coach. "Hey kid, we gotta hit this time on this date, or your not going to get xyz scholarship".
If you take anything I say to heart, I suggest you buy a book with some soundly defined training philosophies, and apply a scientific treatment to your coaching.
also, your coaching resume is worthless without any verification.
bangalangadanga wrote:
lawguy wrote:Since she hasn't done anything to warrant scholarship consideration, a 6 week build up for this race was our best option. After this race, she will have a 2 week break and then back into base work. Doing a normal winter and waiting until spring to try and run fast would have meant that she'd have to end up walking on some place because most schools will be finished recruiting for this class by then.
If you think she can only run 5:20 based on the workouts discussed, then you apparently don't know what you are talking about anyway.
Keep your head in the ground big guy.
14 x 400 with 200 recovery at 4:52 pace.
^--- this is the biggest mark against you!
Where's the pudding?
you tell others that there is no need to be rude, but you are just as rude to those who dissent.
Way to make running "fun", coach. "Hey kid, we gotta hit this time on this date, or your not going to get xyz scholarship".
If you take anything I say to heart, I suggest you buy a book with some soundly defined training philosophies, and apply a scientific treatment to your coaching.
also, your coaching resume is worthless without any verification.
You are entitled to your opinion, but unfortunately I don't have to take you seriously if you can't carry on a discussion without being condescending. (next time, try not telling someone you are going to "admonish" them.) Good luck with your bi-weekly time trials.
Lawguy wrote:
Ended up running a 529
Too many 200's at 4:40 mile pace and not enough stamina.
Obviously mental toughness is an important aspect of running the 1600 though so she is going to have to learn to deal better with adversity as we move forward.
It was the training, pure and simple.
Don't try to blame the runner for the coaching.
my first recap on the thread wrote:
Lawguy wrote:Ended up running a 529
Too many 200's at 4:40 mile pace and not enough stamina.
Obviously mental toughness is an important aspect of running the 1600 though so she is going to have to learn to deal better with adversity as we move forward.
It was the training, pure and simple.
Don't try to blame the runner for the coaching.
You don't think a miler should be doing a good bit of their training at faster than their goal pace? The girl ran a 515 2 weeks ago so she must be in pretty good shape. Bad races happen. That's just part of our sport. Good for this girl that she was able to shake it off and run a strong 8 later in the day.
There are way too many geniuses and trolls on this board to carry on a serious discussion. This is the same kind of crap that chased away all of the elite runners/coaches who used to post here.
brilliant wrote:
You don't think a miler should be doing a good bit of their training at faster than their goal pace?
To the contrary, I think.
The girl ran a 515 2 weeks ago so she must be in pretty good shape. Bad races happen.
Really. Then carry on doing the same dumb a$$ training you've been doing, but stop trying to blame the young woman for your failures.
There are way too many geniuses and trolls on this board to carry on a serious discussion. This is the same kind of crap that chased away all of the elite runners/coaches who used to post here.
You should pin that on your wall.
IIRC, I predicted she'd run 5:20 on p. 2 of this thread. Your reply was some condescending BS. Sorry I was 9 sec off..
brilliant wrote:
my first recap on the thread wrote:Too many 200's at 4:40 mile pace and not enough stamina.
It was the training, pure and simple.
Don't try to blame the runner for the coaching.
You don't think a miler should be doing a good bit of their training at faster than their goal pace? The girl ran a 515 2 weeks ago so she must be in pretty good shape. Bad races happen. That's just part of our sport. Good for this girl that she was able to shake it off and run a strong 8 later in the day.
There are way too many geniuses and trolls on this board to carry on a serious discussion. This is the same kind of crap that chased away all of the elite runners/coaches who used to post here.
Thanks, but dont waste your time arguing with these guys. Even with the trolls, this thread has been useful. I'll try to remember to check in later in the week to let the ppl following along know how things ended up.
You've taken her from 5:15 to 5:29 so far.
We already know how things are going to end up.
So any updates? Sorry for all the idiotic trolls, it sounds like you're doing a great job with this kid and obviously you care a lot about her if you're willing to put this much time into it.
how am I an idiotic troll? OP posted here looking for predictions for an athlete's 1600 time. He posted a little background & proudly listed her training.
I looked over her training, concluded it was stupidly intense & gave my prediction - which the OP dissed when he told me I was clueless.
Turns out my prediction was optimistic. Now I'm a troll? Why, because I didn't agree with the training? Because I predicted the girl would race poorly? If the coach wasn't truly looking for advice, what's the point of starting the thread??
I'm not talking about you specifically, but it just seems like there are a lot of negative comments. There's a difference between offering constructive criticism and bashing a guy. I think it hurts the site when you can't ask a question without being called out.
fair point.
But I think you need to be a little more open to criticism & discussion if you start a thread like this.
Otherwise, what are you looking for - anonymous people to tell you what a great coach you are?
Ok, I can agree with that. I guess the point I should have made was for the OP to not take the criticism as a personal attack and to realize that some of the things that sound harsh may be solid advice. I think some of the commenters could be a bit more civil in their interactions, like you were just now.
For instance, instead of saying "6400 meters of intervals for a HS girl in December who is a relative newb to distance running is stupid" say something a bit more constructive. That's probably a great point, but as a coach when someone tells you that what you're doing is stupid, you're probably going to dig your heels in. Reminds me of this great clip from The Wire: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBqyOj39rEo
point taken - I agree
Hey guys, sorry its taken me so long to update. Final time trial was today and it went really well. 5:09.3 final time. Splits were less than ideal as my boy who paced her got a little too excited on the first lap and took her through the 200 in 32 then settled down to hit 70 for the 400. 2nd 400 was 78 for a 2:29 split. The fast early pace caught up to her on the 3rd 400 which was 82, but she came back really strong on the last lap in 76. Most of that work was done in the last 200 which was 35 high.
The 5:29 at the race not withstanding, I'm really pleased with how this block of training ended up. I think this should give her a lot of confidence and a little bit of much needed experience on how to run the 1600. Shutting her down for a well deserved break now. 6-8 weeks of base work after that and then we'll get back to 800/1600 work.
Thanks again to everyone who offered their thoughts ITT. I'll try to remember to come back in April or May to let you guys know where she ends up.
SlipperyPete1340 wrote:
I'm not talking about you specifically, but it just seems like there are a lot of negative comments. There's a difference between offering constructive criticism and bashing a guy. I think it hurts the site when you can't ask a question without being called out.
(forgot to swap my handle back to the one I've used ITT in my previous post)
Thanks for your positive comments. That's really the point I've tried to make a couple of times previously ITT. Several guys have offered constructive criticism without being overly negative and I've enjoyed reading their thoughts. No one is going to take your advice/thoughts seriously when you call them stupid etc. when you offer them.
Anyways, no hard feelings towards anyone. I've really enjoyed this discussion.