Webb Officially in Trials 5k

Those are rules for "AUTOMATIC QUALIFICATION." We all agree that Alan Webb did not make "AUTOMATIC QUALIFICATION," he made it by appeal.

People clearly don't understand the idea of a provisional mark. Its basically just a feel good time to set some standard whereby, if necessary, they go to these guys to fill out the field.

Think of it this way. Webb nor any of the provisional qualifierS met the automatic standard... and therefore, all of their times are pretty meaningless since you have a full field of Auto qualifiers. Therefore, if each one of those guys petitioned to get in... and you had their petition against Webb's petition, whose do you think would look better?

I'm sorry, but Webb's 3:37 is as good or better than all those guys Provisional mark, thereby showing more than reasonable fitness, and his 13:10, AR status and past Olympian credentials are so far superior to what anyone else has done, it becomes no question this is the right call.

Anyone who doesn't see it that way is blind, imo.

I don't know how many times I have to say this?

THEY HAVE NOT STARTED TAKING APPEALS FOR THE 5000 YET.

Hassan Mead University of Minnesota-Twin Cities 13:33.42 provisional pending

Yosef Ghebray 13:34.34 provisional pending

Dan Lowry Brown University 13:34.49 provisional pending

Girma Mecheso Oklahoma State University 13:34.83 provisional pending

George Alex University of Oklahoma 13:35.27 provisional pending

Trevor Dunbar University of Oregon 13:36.86 provisional pending

Forest Braden 13:37.90 provisional pending

Joseph Stilin Princeton University 13:38.36 provisional pending

Michael Banks 13:38.67 provisional pending

Parker Stinson University of Oregon 13:39.22 provisional pending

Mikhail Sayenko Brooks / Club Northwest 13:39.75 provisional pending

Kenyon Neuman 13:40.38 provisional pending

Jonathan Peterson University of California, Davis 13:41.93 provisional pending

Elliot Krause University of Wisconsin-Madison 13:42.38 provisional pending

Landon Peacock ZAP Fitness Reebok 13:42.90 provisional pending

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Two questions first of all:

1. What was the stated online/published total number of runners that the USATF wanted or claimed that they wanted in the 5000 meter (heats) at the US Trials? - 20 or 30 or 45 What???

2. In rank order at this point, where does Webb stand on the list time wise?

If they set a max number runners on the total field for the 5000 and at this point, if there are enough both A & B Standard runners to fill that entire field in rank order, and they have all declared their intension to run, then they should all be given a fair shot at runnig the heats and working their way into final if they make the cut after each round. If they have until 48 hours to declare their intension to run their first heat in the event that they qualified for with either an A or B standard (based on the numbers), and for some reason they opt-out, then the next fastest guy who wants to run, should get the chance to show his stuff!

I say Fine! Yes, I know that's considered "filling the track" but at least no one is getting cut out of an opportunity to run.

If anything Webb should just be "provisional" at this point like anyone else who didnt make the "A" standard in this event and should be waiting on the side lines in rank order just in case the opportunity comes up if they don't have enough runners to fill the designated field.

But to be allowed at this point, to jump the line and bump ahead of someone else who has already qualified and has declared to run and has a faster time within the qualifing period, is simply unthinkable. That's complete cheating and a disthonest way to run a competition and makes a sham out of the whole selection process!

Lateral jumping into other events no matter how popular or sucessful you might have been in the past should not be allowed! If they let Webb run as it now stands, how on Earth can anyone say this is a fair and democratic process? We live in a "Democracy" not a "Kleptocracy" where the privilaged get ahead via their back door connections!

Is John Chaplin still in charge of the selection process?

If so, part of his rationale in letting Webb into the 5k had to be the pleasure he gets in bumping 2nd-tier distance runners out of the trials. I wouldn't be surprised if he limits the field to 24 just to torture the next 13:37 guy on the list. Clearly he is not a fan of the sub-international class distance running community!

http://givingless.blogspot.com/2008/07/douche-for-decades-john-chaplin.html

http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=13776&PageNum=1

You have a misguided view of fairness and the selection process in general. If you don't make the A standard, you are basically in a group with all other provisional qualifiers that the selection people can pick from to fill out the rest of the field. Just because they usually do so by the fastest qualifying time within the window doesn't mean that they have to do it that way. It's completely subjective so that they can have cases like this where they can allow someone in that they want in the race.

Is John Chaplin still in charge of the selection process?

If so, part of his rationale in letting Webb into the 5k had to be the pleasure he gets in bumping 2nd-tier distance runners out of the trials. I wouldn't be surprised if he limits the field to 24 just to torture the next 13:37 guy on the list. Clearly he is not a fan of the sub-international class distance running community!

http://givingless.blogspot.com/2008/07/douche-for-decades-john-chaplin.html

http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=13776&PageNum=1

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Please someone call These guys -

Jon Little - an attorney and 2:21 marathoner, threatened arbitration, but eventually dropped the matter the day before the 10,000m. The runners with faster qualifying times than Goucher wound up not running.

Robert Johnson - the men’s distance coach at Cornell University and co-founder of LetsRun.com, says, “The Goucher case definitely felt like favoritism. Apparently his appeal was granted before the meet started, but was officially announced toward the end of meet. Why go out of your way to make it look like something bad is going on?”

Now we all know where Oscar Ponce has been hiding! He's been staying at John Chaplin's House!

Now we all know where Oscar Ponce has been hiding! He's been staying at John Chaplin's House!

wat

I didn't read the whole thread so sorry if this has been noted. But did Webb pull out of the 5000 last weekend because he had a heads up he'd be granted entry into the 5000 at the trials. If so, that'd be an even more slimy scenario than it already is.

You have a misguided view of fairness and the selection process in general. If you don't make the A standard, you are basically in a group with all other provisional qualifiers that the selection people can pick from to fill out the rest of the field. Just because they usually do so by the fastest qualifying time within the window doesn't mean that they have to do it that way. It's completely subjective so that they can have cases like this where they can allow someone in that they want in the race.

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"Misguided" What planet are you on pal? They can take their "complete subjectivity" and stuff it! If you QUALIFY! YOU QUALIFY and if you dont, YOU FU#%king dont!

Don't give me your infantile speal about how, "They'll do what they want to!"

Not with my clients aynmore or with the dozens of athletes who have spent years and life savings in preparation for this! The USATF is completely corrupt at the highest levels and needs to be dismantled and restructured from the ground up with clear and distict criteria for qualification that is adhered to religiously, honestly and ethically!

Whenever an organization operates in such an "Omniscient manner" like they have here by allowing Webb into the 5K, it sends a clear message to all participants there in, that your efforts will not be honored and your legal rights are secondary and subject to our control at any given moment.

This autocratic and shambolic management style is akin to living under some despotic nutcase where you never know where the line of the law is!

If Allen Webb had an ounce of integrity to his character, he'd stay in the 1500m where he earned a shot at it like everyone else and let those who qulified for the 5k run their races.

If no "Ranking System" exists then why have seeded times or qualifcation standars at all? Why not make it a free-for-all where they justbgather as many people around a 400 meter track as they can fit onto it and the first three guys around four times get to be on the Olympic Team?

This has got to be the most asinine decision I think USATF has ever made to date!

You act like this is the first time this has happened. This happens every year, get over it. If you want to get into the meet, run the A standard, otherwise, you are at the whim of John Chaplin. While I agree that a clear cut qualification process should be established, it hasn't. This should not come as a surprise to anyone. The only surprise is which event people will be screwed out of. This year, 1 guy happened to get screwed out of a spot in the 5k. Compared with previous years, thats not too bad.

Every year wrote:

This year, 1 guy happened to get screwed out of a spot in the 5k. Compared with previous years, thats not too bad.

Of course, you are assuming that one other runner with the B standard would have been allowed in if Webb had not been allowed to run. This may or may not be the case. Maybe the field would just be one person smaller if Webb didn't run. In that case, no one has been "screwed."

Every time we have a situation like this we make our sport into gymnastics or figure skating where subjective judging reigns supreme. One of the beautiful things about track and field, one of the things that I love, is that there is objectivity to it. You are what the stop watch says you are.

For all the guys saying 13:20 at the trials is impossible, you do realize that the national championships last year had all 3 qualifiers within 5 seconds of that mark. US distance running is much better this year and I suspect a 13:20 is possible. Now I am not saying its super likely, but its definitely possible with Rupp and Lagat battling it out. The only problem is that this year we don't have Solinsky running just the 5k. He pushed the pace with a mile to go since he wasn't doubling. All the best guys Rupp, Lamong, Lagat, Ritz etc. will all be doubling. Webb better be ready to push the pace if he wants to go to London!

He should have just gone out and run a qualifying time at a low-key meet, like Mo Trafeh.

Article (c) does not explicitly state that the Olympic 'A' Standard must be in the specific event in question. Depending upon your interpretation of this clause, it is possible that Webb does have an "Olympic 'A' Standard that would apply to the current championship team selection."

I don't have any emotional interest in this situation, I'm just pointing out the possible alternative legal interpretation. Perhaps Webb didn't get in on appeal, perhaps he is an automatic qualifier under the clause I listed above...

depends on the alternative wrote:

Every year wrote:

This year, 1 guy happened to get screwed out of a spot in the 5k. Compared with previous years, thats not too bad.

Of course, you are assuming that one other runner with the B standard would have been allowed in if Webb had not been allowed to run. This may or may not be the case. Maybe the field would just be one person smaller if Webb didn't run. In that case, no one has been "screwed."

This is also a very likely scenario. I was just trying to put it in perspective for the retard claiming that this was a huge legal injustice and the worst thing to ever happen to track and field.

In other words he is NOT an automatic qualifier?? Did I miss the part where USTAF explained this?

ahsdkjsahdkjahkd wrote:

Left Said Fred wrote:

And the rules also allow for an appeal. You could appeal, Mr. Obvious, and if USATF accepted it, you could run the 5000m next week, completely within the scope of the rules.

Article (c) does not explicitly state that the Olympic 'A' Standard must be in the specific event in question. Depending upon your interpretation of this clause, it is possible that Webb does have an "Olympic 'A' Standard that would apply to the current championship team selection."

I don't have any emotional interest in this situation, I'm just pointing out the possible alternative legal interpretation. Perhaps Webb didn't get in on appeal, perhaps he is an automatic qualifier under the clause I listed above...

ahsdkjsahdkjahkd wrote:

Article (c) does not explicitly state that the Olympic 'A' Standard must be in the specific event in question. Depending upon your interpretation of this clause, it is possible that Webb does have an "Olympic 'A' Standard that would apply to the current championship team selection."

I don't have any emotional interest in this situation, I'm just pointing out the possible alternative legal interpretation. Perhaps Webb didn't get in on appeal, perhaps he is an automatic qualifier under the clause I listed above...

He doesn't have an A standard in any event.