Aghast wrote:
Do you still think chronic fatigue syndrome is caused by XMRV?
I don't know if you're merely baiting me, which is cruel, or genuine in your question. Forgive me if you are. I never said I thought unequivocably that XMRV was the de facto cause. I said an XMLV or PMLV could be implicated. What I think is the cause doesn't matter, but I do think some type of retroviral involvement fits perfectly with the illness (probably more than one), and it could still be XMRV or a variant(s).
The latest sequences being updated to GenBank are polytropic in nature. Where Judy Mikovitz went wrong is that she didn't use 5-AZA with her controls, so her data was rendered meaningless. The problem is, John Coffin and Dan Peterson both knew about this at the IACFS conference in 2009. And they didn't say anything about it at the time (or after), even as it was going to Science. Moreover, there was never any proven evidence of the VP62 contaminant in Judy's lab, even as it is a ubiquitous contaminant in so many lab tools. They were looking at VP45 I believe.
Coffin was largely part of the judge and jury after the fact. Abby "thinks she smarter than God" of ERV infamy thinks she cracked the case, but this data was already out there in 2009 and Coffin and his ilk knew about it. So many mistakes were made in the BWG replication study. Only looking at blood, when the virus retreats rather rapidly from blood, storing patient samples at the CDC in the same room as the 22rv1 contaminated cell line, not using proper preservatives, techs possibly not freezing/thawing samples according to strict methodology, doing a true replication study.
As far as the macaque study, it doesn't really prove anything, though many scientists would argue host restriction enzymes render an innocuous virus harmless. We don't know anything about the biology of this purported virus. The macaques got sick and developed a sort of immune system anergy. That's ALL we know. Mikovitz's work showed a humoral response to something, and even though there could've been cross-reactivity, the regions that were reacted upon smell retroviral. Chalk it up to an endogenous virus?
What else can drop CD4 counts into the 300 range and severely deplete NK cells? What else can cause white matter lesions on the brain that look like mini-strokes, much the same as what happens with HIV patients?
Read the following blog on "The Emperor Has No Clothes." She's a Harvard-trained physician who thought she had lyme for many years and was abused by the system, but she actually has ME. Read the entire piece, but especially the parts about retroviral involvement, xenografting experiments, Coffin's admission on recombinatory nightmares, Snyderman's own CFS remission using anti-retrovirals, and all the scientific links. She's on to something. We don't know what. I don't think we want to know what. Seriously, read it. Everyone should, all of it, before spewing an opinion.
http://www.x-rx.net/blog/2012/05/the-emperor-has-no-clothes.html#commentsHere are some of the guest posts:
"the CDC has no test, they have never had a clinically validated assay. The Lo lab now uses the failed assay from the Lo paper, as they did in the blood study. All we have is Mikovits and Ruscetti and they found polytropic sequences.
By the way the difference between xenotropic and polytropic is totally subjective. They shouldn’t be claiming they are different viruses.
Prostate cancer patients are infected with the XMRVs. Urisman et al. said they were viruses.
The Government is only picking on ME. There is no big (useless) NIH study on XMRV in prostate cancer.
When it comes to the NIH study, commissioned by Fauci and Collins with golden boy Lipkin asked to put his name to it, there is no guarantee this is to be a replication study. They have still kept all the study details a secret to this day and will we even get the full details when it is published? I doubt it. Not unless we take this to court.
And lets not forget how easy it is to mess up the clinically validated assays of Mikovits and Ruscetti. The first thing they have no control over is sample collection and processing. Then there is coding, blinding and patient/control selection.
If the technicians are not briefed correctly the assays will fail. If the blood is frozen and thawed slowly the assays will fail. If no trizol is added, as occurred in the blood study, the assays will fail, if PCR inhibitors are used the assays will fail. It is a political study for politicians.
@Jamie, we shouldn’t give in. Lets fight them on this. They fear a patient backlash and we do have grounds to have officials investigate. Congress?
Everyone of these articles involves damning evidence against contamination as an explanation. In fact what contamination theory? There is no evidence for it. They are naked. The first article here actually could bring the NCBI into disrepute. I would argue it does. You can’t switch one virus for another! Answers about what is taking place in the Genbank are critical to the health of millions. This is the evidence we need to launch hearings into the actions of certain groups.
Is VP62 in fact PreXMRV-1? Virus swapping occurring in the Genbank!
http://me-advocacy.com/VP62_please_step_forward.htmlMissing env gene in the 22Rv1 virus, the consensus XMRV virus.
http://me-advocacy.com/Missing_22Rv1_env_region.htmlTwo PreXMRV-1 viruses
http://me-advocacy.com/Two_PreXMRV-1_viruses_.htmlPreXMRV-1 and -2 not shown integrated into nude mice.
http://me-advocacy.com/PreXMRV-1_and__2_in_GenBank.htmlThe scientists out there who are scared are more likely to go for it if thy see support from the patients. So don’t give in science is the only thing that can make a difference and we have to ensure it is allowed to happen. The HHS should not be interfering as they have done."
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"It is known that the CDC test cannot detect any kind of gammaretrovirus let alone the Mikovits/Ruscetti retrovirus.
The Lo test cannot detect the Mikovits retroviruses and Lo used a test in the BWG that could not detect a MLV in people with ME either. So the only tests with a chance are the mikovits ruscetti tests.
We all know that the Mikovits/Ruscetti gammaretroviruses are not related to the VP-62 sequence.
What most people dont realise is how important sample preparation is. Hemolysis or not washing the buffy coats properly will leave lactoferratin in the sample and inhibit PCR. The resultant matrix effects disrupt antibody antigen avidity and affinity rendering the Mikovits and Ruscetti assays useless. In blood the concentration of MuLV is so low that even minor flaws in sample preparation will render them undetectable. They can however be detected using a simple throat swab as per Fischer et al."
I'm not endorsing said poster's comments, but whether you think it's all tinfoil bull$hit or not, it's worthy of further investigation. I do know for a fact that patients from my doctor's cohort, some of the sickest, were not chosen for the study. Next-generation studies will prove invaluable if contamination issues can be eliminated, which they're working on. Perhaps Mango can way in.
Unfortunately, Dr. Snyderman suggested that he heard directly that scientists were being pressured politically to stay away from studying retroviral causation. If it's not a novel retrovirus, then it's a problem in the toxic environment undermining the immune systems of all kinds of patients with neuroimmune illness, allowing these viruses and other pathogens to pile on. But my early years were highly suggestive of a retroviral trigger.
At least the government of Norway apologized to the patient community after denying the illness before when they found a cancer drug that ablated B-cells (reservoirs of retrovirus) and clones made patients feel normal again for a period of time. BTW, T-cell clonality is another, as yet, uninvestigated problem.
http://www.euro-me.org/news-Q42011-003.htmSo dingle and Yuri Sagarin and all the other monikers who think it's fun to mock this illness should learn a little about karma. And, yes, Webby, unless someone stole you're handle, you mocked me on another XMRV thread. Shameless.
OP, I hope you get to the bottom of this. She probably doesn't have ME/CFS, but the earlier you figure this out, the better off you will be. The diet and sleep is important. So is blood volume. See if hers is abnormal.