Girl qualifies for Footlocker Nationals... declines invitation

Junk Master wrote:

For those of you questioning her heart, her coach mentioned she likes doing a workout BEFORE soccer practice-- that's bad ass in my book.

I don't recall anyone questioning her heart. Overall this thread has been pretty positive, mainly just discussing the differences between cross country and soccer and what they would do if given the choice.

Northener wrote:

However, if a FEMALE footlocker finalist wants to, they can get a full ride scholarship at almost any school, including top ten programs.

I wonder if this is still true since many top girls ran at NXN. In terms of girls that could have run at the West Regional that ran at NXN instead, the top 10 at NXN looked to be comparable, if not stronger, than the 10 that qualified for Footlocker.

Moral hazards wrote:

Northener wrote:

However, if a FEMALE footlocker finalist wants to, they can get a full ride scholarship at almost any school, including top ten programs.

I wonder if this is still true since many top girls ran at NXN. In terms of girls that could have run at the West Regional that ran at NXN instead, the top 10 at NXN looked to be comparable, if not stronger, than the 10 that qualified for Footlocker.

You do bring up a good point in that NXN is starting to take away some of the top footlocker runners. However, from my experience, even the girls finishing in 11th-15th place at past footlocker regional meets still could get a full ride scholarship to many schools, although not to as many schools as a footlocker finalist. Those 11th-15th finishers now may be making the finals with the NXN stealing some of the top girls, but I still think ALL of them could get a full ride somewhere and most could get a full ride at dozens of schools. With the D1 scholarships moved up to 20 for women's track/cross country, it just isn't that hard to get a full ride.

If you are a D1 coach with 20 full rides, why not give five or six full rides to distance runners, another 10 full rides to high level performers in the events you emphasize (i.e. throws and sprints). Then take those remaining 4 scholarships and divide them up between another 10-15 girls to give you depth.

Because of gender equity, pretty much every school that has football is going to offer the full allotment of 20 scholarships so they can off set the number of male football scholarships. That is a lot of schools giving 20 full ride scholarships and a lot more D2 schools that are giving 12.6 scholarships.

D1 - 20 scholarships sounds like a lot doesn't it. Except perhaps when you consider that it is 20 total not 20 new ones each year. So if you split 10 distance /10 non distance (unrealistic considering the number of non-distance track athletes) you end up with "perhaps" 2 new distance scholarships per year. Remember you have to figure supporting your red-shirt/5th year athletes. At least if you are a reputable school that follows through with their commitments. What do you think a coach is going to do? Give 2 full rides or give maybe one full and hope to attract two more solid runners with 1/2 athletic scholarships with the hopes of getting them more through academic scholarships? It really is not a guaranteed scholarship situation. But hey what do I know. My daughter is a Footlocker finalist and D1 conference XC champion. Her scholarship while generous is not 100% athletic. Oh and all those coaches knocking on your door? Try maybe 3 and only 2 of those really serious.

dbnv wrote:

It's freaking SOCCER, ouch

Wake up guys. I love track as much as the rest of you but I´m not naive to the rest of the world. Soccer is by and far the worlds most popular sport, the FIFA World Cup shines along with or regularly outshines the Olympics.

With the exception of all but a few of the highest paid track athletes, she´d probably do far better for herself if she remains on the national team for the rest of her career. It´s the sad truth.

If you look at projections, Soccer is growing in North America by leaps and bounds, but elite track spectator-ship is stagnant or dropping.

It pains me deeply to say it, but she probably made the correct decision. We have IAAF and USATF to blame for that.

JOIN TFAA!!

World Cup Brasil! wrote:

Wake up guys. I love track as much as the rest of you but I´m not naive to the rest of the world. Soccer is by and far the worlds most popular sport, the FIFA World Cup shines along with or regularly outshines the Olympics.

That's true for the real World Cup. The Women's world cup however, no one really gives a damn.

Women are really close to men in many sports, like e.g. Track and Field, where it's usually 10% difference.

In soccer, they're worlds apart. The US Women soccer team would lose around 20-0 if they ever played the men seriously.

Anyway, there is also not much money in womens soccer.

douglas burke wrote:

it is not unusual for distance runners to qualify for what would be the biggest event of their life, then decline to take part.

look at the USA runners who qualified for world xc and turned down the invitation to take part, not because they are injured, but because there is a low key race they would prefer to compete in.

example the new york 8k and or the jacksonville 15k both races are about the same time as world xc.

and because of some of our runners lack of competitive heart they pick the race where they are the big fish in a small pond rather than compete with the big boys.

You remain an idiot.

her life and decision wrote:

It is her life and her decision. Who cares? Maybe she enjoys soccer more than running. Her decision probably thrilled the alternate who now has the opportunity to run at nationals.

Good for her. Best of luck with whatever - if any - sport she decides to pursue long term.

You know what's amazing is that it took more than a page to get to this possibility.

Maybe the young lady prefers to play soccer.

Good for her and good luck to her.

A little background on Balkman and his choice...

I was the head XC Coach at Lynbrook when Jason was a senior and I was his training partner on occasion. He told me of his plan to go to Christmas Prom and of the possible conflict. Prom at Lynbrook is a BIG deal from how you ask your date (just as big a deal as the prom) to the prom itself. At the time he asked his date, he was one of the top runners in CCS but had lots of heavy competition in the State and figured he was out of the running :) at the Western Regionals but still wanted to race ALL the big boys since he didn't get that chance at States (5 divisions). He really wanted to go to Prom so I encouraged him to do so. He continued to improve throughout the season. FLW came along and he won, big surprise. He informed FL right away that he would have to decline and 9th place was then invited (this was when only 8 advanced). Years later (after he graduated from Stanford) I ran with him and asked him if he regretted his choice. His answer was a quick and resounding "No", best call he made for his HS career he felt.

I don't know how much financial aide he got or what the balance was (athletic Vs academic). He was a multiple State champ and a 4.0 from Lynbrook (which is known for its academic prowess) so I wouldn't be surprised that when you combined that together (with the fact that Vin wanted him at Stanford) that he could get a full ride.

hank

Stanford (for example) has 26 women on the soccer team and 54 on the track team.

20/54= 37% scholarship per athlete for track

14/26= 54% scholarship per athlete for soccer

wi|fredo wrote:[

Stanford (for example) has 26 women on the soccer team and 54 on the track team.

20/54= 37% scholarship per athlete for track

14/26= 54% scholarship per athlete for soccer

A track team is always going to have a lot more walk-on 's than a soccer team. Bad example. Take out probably half of those 54 girls that are most likely walk-on's and you get 20/27, not 20 out of 54.

I am not sure where your daughter was looking, but she could have received many full ride offers if she wanted them. I recruited girls all the time that were solid runners, around 5 minute milers and 11 minute two milers and I always had to compete with several schools offering the girls full ride scholarships. These were girls not close to qualifying for Footlocker. Remember, most schools do not have well-rounded track teams and if they focus on cross country, will be given a large portion of their money to runners since they get them for two sports instead of one.

Also, you said in your post that if they have two scholarships to give in a year, one might be a full ride and the other divided into. Since only 40 girls qualify for footlocker and there are almost 600 D1 and D2 schools, not to mention NAIA and Junior colleges that also offer scholarships, don't you think the footlocker finalist is the one getting the full ride offer at most of the schools besides the top few in the country. Of course. It is simple math.

No school has 20 full rides for females in t&f.

Assuming you meant split between male/female, there are very few schools (if any) who give 10 full rides to females.

Most schools that have complete programs, have to split scholarship money between 30 or so athletes and only perhaps the top 5-6 of that 30 will get a full ride. Often what is referred to as a full ride is a combination of several types of aid.

When it comes to the track powerhouses like Nova, G'Town, Oregon, Col, OSU, Stanford, FL, etc., just being an FLNC qualifier will not get you a full ride, you literally need to be one of the top 4-5 in the nation.

Just being a FLNC qualifier could get you a full ride at lesser accomplished D1 or a D2 school; however, I don't know of any school that gives out a scholarships for XC...schools give out t&f scholarships. You have to put up some impressive numbers on the track.

There is not a lot of money in women's soccer, even being on an Olympic, World Cup or successful club team, you are going to earn middle class wages at best. The few that have done well are the superstars and they have been very marketable individuals.

There is not a lot of money in t&f either, but simply winning an NCAA title means you can start out with a 6 figure salary and athletes like Felix, Shalane, Barringer, etc., have combined incomes close to a million dollars. (yes, that’s correct) There are a lot more women in that category in t&f than soccer. There are at least a dozen women in t&f/running who made over a million dollars this year, there is perhaps only one women in soccer who made that type of money.

Soccer is kind of like basketball in that you can come out of H.S./club highly rated, but you can quickly find out that at the next level you don't stack up. Whereas in running, the clock tells you how you compare. There are only about 15 countries that consistently produce great runners, but there over 50 countries that produce great soccer players. If the NCAA opened the flood gates, NCAA soccer would be dominated by foreigners.

You have to follow your heart, but I know many females who were young elite soccer players and transitioned to just running with no major regrets. Elite level female soccer players are big, strong, athletic and the speed/endurance that made you special, well they all have that as well. I use to run a speed develement program for non- runners and all of the soccer player could run and they could do 50 push-ups as well.

With all of that said, a 15 year old that can play to U17 is very talented and as special as FLNC is to us, soccer has quite a few things that are just as big on a deal. Also, not competing in FLNC does not involve letting your team down, but some girls have been playing on the same soccer team since they were 8 years old and I can clearly see not wanting let your soccer team down or give up the opportunity to travel and play internationally.

…just keeping it real!

TrackCoach wrote:

No school has 20 full rides for females in t&f.

Assuming you meant split between male/female, there are very few schools (if any) who give 10 full rides to females.!

So I stopped reading after the first two sentences. What would be the motivation for you lying on a message board like this? Or, if you are not lying, then why post something that you aren't sure of.

The NCAA maximum allowable amount of scholarship money that any D1 school can give for women's track/cross country is 20. It used to be 18 and was recently increased to 20. Ask any D1 college coach and they can confirm that number. In D2 the amount is 12.6.

Each school can decide how many scholarships they offer in each sport, up to the maximum allowable by NCAA regulations, in this case 20. Many of the smaller schools that don't have football do not offer 20 scholarships for their program. However, the majority of football schools do offer the full 20 scholarships, because it is needed to off set the male only football scholarships. The increase to 20 was done because schools were looking for more ways to off set the number of football scholarships. That is why the men only get 12.6 scholarships, even though they have just as much need for 20 scholarships as the women do, but it would hurt the gender equity numbers to offer the men more.

Look, the girl likes soccer more than running. Leave it at that.

The hard part for me to understand is why the soccer coach can't let one player miss PRACTICE! This is not a national tournament, but practice. No games. So essentially she is missing the biggest high school race in the U.S. for soccer practice. Which is fine if soccer is your true love. But the concerning part is the coach unwilling to let an athlete run. They must not want to lose the athlete and future paycheck to another sport.

Uhhh what are you talking about? It is NOT 20 scholarships, it is 18.

uhhh.... wrote:

Uhhh what are you talking about It is NOT 20 scholarships, it is 18.

It recently changed to 20. Do your homework and stop posting if you aren't definitely sure of something.

Skeptic of it All wrote:

Look, the girl likes soccer more than running. Leave it at that.

The hard part for me to understand is why the soccer coach can't let one player miss PRACTICE! This is not a national tournament, but practice. No games. So essentially she is missing the biggest high school race in the U.S. for soccer practice. Which is fine if soccer is your true love. But the concerning part is the coach unwilling to let an athlete run. They must not want to lose the athlete and future paycheck to another sport.

This is not some local club soccer team. This is a training camp for the national team that is preparing for a World Cup tournament next year. It's a week-long camp at the US Olympic Training Center in Chula Vista. Because the athletes come from all over the country (and most miss significant amounts of school to participate), they can only do this a few times per year. So if you want to represent your country, you show up to the training camp.

People like me are way to serious to spend time lying on messageboards. Please give me the name of one school that has 20 'full rides' to give out to the female track team? Perhaps you need to read a little more and understand what is generally referred to as a scholarship and what is actually a 'full ride' as in all you need is money for pizza on the weekend. Shoot Karen Harvey (FSU) an email and ask her how many girls she has in the 'full ride' category.