Time for an Honest Assessment of Ritz's Performance

Wilford Brimley wrote:

I generally enjoy watching and rooting for all of our guys and girls.

The one thing that does burn me up, however, is tons of talk and then not coming close to the scope of that talk.

Kara Goucher is the queen of this, in my opinion, and that\'s why I\'ve taken a disliking to her. She just. Can\'t. Shut. Her mouth. She\'s a good national runner, and no better.

You\'re certainly entitled to your opinion, and in this case, it is very understandable how you came to hold this one. But also please consider that in Goucher\'s case, in particular, The Media Just. Wont. Leave. Her. Alone.

She\'s asked a gazillion questions (or the same question, a gazillion times) and was raised to be polite and personable, therefore, she must respond so many times as well.

not to bright are ya?

hsimh wrote:

Ritz, and some of his fans, has problems coming to grips that Lanana managed to jump Hall way ahead of Ritz by Hall's senior outdoor season. Ritz can't be assumed to be a 2:06-2:07 guy now, or ever, just because he used to beat up on Hall in highschool and college. Since has Hall run fast at London, then London must be a soft course, well maybe it is, but more like 1 min. worth not 5 mins. as proven by Ritz.

hmmmmmm wrote:

not to bright are ya?

hsimh wrote:

Ritz, and some of his fans, has problems coming to grips that Lanana managed to jump Hall way ahead of Ritz by Hall's senior outdoor season. Ritz can't be assumed to be a 2:06-2:07 guy now, or ever, just because he used to beat up on Hall in highschool and college. Since has Hall run fast at London, then London must be a soft course, well maybe it is, but more like 1 min. worth not 5 mins. as proven by Ritz.

Hall did 13:16 in 2005 at USAs after winning NCAAs in 13:22, Ritz's new PR set in 2005 was only 13:22 at Eugene, even though he went pro early. Hall beat Ritz in USATF XC 2006 and then did the AR Half same year. Lanana put Hall where he needed to be to dominate Ritz post-college.

Brutal Honesty wrote:

Ritz was living in the land of fantasy if he thought that he was in 206 -207 shape.

He had done nothing to indicate that he was in 206 shape - when was the last time that Ritz raced? If he hasn't put it on the line in a race, then as was pointed out earlier, he was living in fantasy land.

Contrast this with Hall - Hall ran < 60 for the half, then rolled a 2:06

Someone is filling his head full of crap.

2:10:00 is a great time, but ... he needs to put things in perspective and tell the guy that the road keeps getting steeper at the top.

Are you jealous that he is better looking than you? Are you jealous that he ran London and you were not fast enought to run? Who are you to critique his performance?

A very good post. All you really need is three or four miles without any focus and you could gain 20 seconds per mile. The difference between 4:55 and 5:00 is very small, but spread over 26.2 miles, it's actually quite a large amount of time. You could be running 4:55 pace the whole marathon and have your last 10K at 5:05 pace and screw everythingup

GrandRapidsTC wrote:

Ritz is still only the second fastest marathoner from his home town. He's probably also the second fastest 2 miler if you include equivalent steeple chase times.

Who is faster that came from Rockford, MI?

TorontoObserver wrote:

If Ritz is in 2:06-2:07 shape, he should have no problem handing 14:37 first 5k.

When Hall ran his 2:06 in 2008, his first 5K was 14.22. Same as the other sub 2:07 finishers.

This is the differences between 2:06-07 shape versus 2:09-2:10 shape.

Good point, but the penalty for Ritz is that what should have been a much slower pace- say 15 flat- cost him a lot in the last 10k- where Meb passed him and he lost a chance at a finish a lot closer to 2:09.

suzie-q wrote:

Brutal Honesty wrote:

Ritz was living in the land of fantasy if he thought that he was in 206 -207 shape.

He had done nothing to indicate that he was in 206 shape - when was the last time that Ritz raced? If he hasn't put it on the line in a race, then as was pointed out earlier, he was living in fantasy land.

Contrast this with Hall - Hall ran < 60 for the half, then rolled a 2:06

Someone is filling his head full of crap.

2:10:00 is a great time, but ... he needs to put things in perspective and tell the guy that the road keeps getting steeper at the top.

Are you jealous that he is better looking than you? Are you jealous that he ran London and you were not fast enought to run? Who are you to critique his performance?

Ah, I just knew that the retarded "you are not allowed to bash somebody who is faster than you" argument had to pop up sooner or later.

[quote]Frugivore wrote:

So what about for Hall? Is he just a way better marathoner than what he "should" be based on his track times? How many other runners out there are like that? Wanjiru?

[quote]

Wanjiru has run 26,4x in the 10000.

[quote]ManFromTheMitten wrote:

Being a fellow Michigan guy, I am a huge fan of Ritz. I am bummed for him not to have met his goal. His early race tactics were ballsy for sure, he was on pace through the half for his goal, but pure and simple got caught up in the crazy pacing instead of watching his watch and pacing HIMSELF. But all of the b.s. on here about "he is in 2:07 shape, he is in 2:06 shape" blah blah blah

D.R. is in 2:09:59 shape. EOT[/quote

You're right, you have to be in 2:09:59 shape to run 2:07. So he is, in fact, both.

Brutal Honesty, I'm with you on your assessment. I'm also going to quote TorontoObserver as he had a pretty good summary of Ritz' Overpromise/Underperform history:

"Ritz has been in reality distortion for a long time. E.g.

* Right after he finished the 10K in Athen, he said in the NBC interview that he wants to medal next time. Obviously he thought he could compete with the likes of Bekele and Tadessy.

* After he won that non-competitive Edinburg XC, he thought that he could have a chance to medal in world cross (he placed way back)

* After he finished third in that half marathon, he said that he might win the New York marathon (he finished in 2:14)

* After he finished Olympic, his coach said that he was in 2:07-2:08 shape.

* Before and after he finished London, he keeps saying he is in 2:06-2:07 shape.

The only thing that he have not said is to break the marathon WR.

Let's see what is next."

It maybe that he's extrapolating performances based on staying healthy, which he never manages to do. Either that or is he crumbling under the weight of his own expectations.

Of course - if Ritz or anyone else faster than me were wearing their shorts inside out or wearing a shoe on the wrong foot - I have no basis for criticism.Obviously, no one can actually coach anyone who is faster than they are, obviously the person who is faster knows much more about running than any coach who is slower. With this in mind Vigil, Mahon, etc. are all just jokers pretending to coach.

idiot alert wrote:

Ah, I just knew that the retarded "you are not allowed to bash somebody who is faster than you" argument had to pop up sooner or later.

Brighter than you wrote:

[quote]hmmmmmm wrote:

not to bright are ya?

Hall did 13:16 in 2005 at USAs after winning NCAAs in 13:22, Ritz's new PR set in 2005 was only 13:22 at Eugene, even though he went pro early. Hall beat Ritz in USATF XC 2006 and then did the AR Half same year. Lanana put Hall where he needed to be to dominate Ritz post-college.

hall ran 0 good races under Vin

his first good cross country season (where he lost narrowly to ritz) was the first year after Vin left under andy gerard...

since then everything he accomplished has been under with gerard or mahon...

Ritz ran 13:16 one year after hall did (beating hall in the process)

Vin didnt hurt hall and he did have some mental problems but Vin did NOT "get hall to a level above ritz by his senior year of college"

Hall is at another level right now but lets not just say random bullshit because bashing ritz is the fun thing to do right now...

Wilford Brimley wrote:

I generally enjoy watching and rooting for all of our guys and girls.

The one thing that does burn me up, however, is tons of talk and then not coming close to the scope of that talk.

Kara Goucher is the queen of this, in my opinion, and that's why I've taken a disliking to her. She just. Can't. Shut. Her mouth. She's a good national runner, and no better.

She placed third at New York and third at Boston. That's a very good national runner. She's the third fastest American female ever. Ritz is the third fastest American male this year. No comparison.

Again, though, I think it's important to look at the whole body of work for both KG and Ritz when evaluating performance.

Both have shown sparkles of greatness. And it's not that they aren't good runners, because they are. They're very good runners. However, I don't see how anyone could argue that they don't overinflate themselves. And it's just not one misplaced prediction; it's constant.

KG ran 2:32 in Boston. A fine run. But would anyone honestly call this a world class performance? Yes, she got 3rd at Worlds. But that was two years ago. Her recent times are 2:32, 1:08:30, 4:33 and maybe an 8:48 thrown in there. They're very good times! But...She throws around the words "World Record" and "American Record" way too much. Her words, not mine.

She just isn't at the level she thinks she is.

Same with Ritz. A terrific runner. But he's not as good as he keeps saying he is.

Look, I'm all for ambition, but as an athlete reality has to make up a much bigger part of your goals.

That is my only point here: We've got a few people - KG and Ritz to name two - who consistently see themselves at a level they're simply not on yet.

coach bigfoot wrote:

GrandRapidsTC wrote:

Ritz is still only the second fastest marathoner from his home town. He's probably also the second fastest 2 miler if you include equivalent steeple chase times.

Who is faster that came from Rockford, MI?

Okay, make that the greater Grand Rapids area.

Greg Meyer 2:09

Brian Diemer Steeple chase bronze medal

My honest assessment is that he's a much faster runner than I. I wish I could run a 2:10 marathon.

I'm also glad that at least some Americans are trying, despite the negativity so readily heaped upon them by their own country's "fans".

Ritz has bigger problems than his muscle cramping late in Marathon races - lots of young, and very hungry East and North Africans you are very, very driven, talented and ready to throw themselves at this sport.

Someone here said it best last Summer - Ritz has become a "careerist" runner, like Alan Culpepper. A stable, steady performer who will stand out nationally and have no impact internationally.

You're missing the point. You said that Ritz is a comparatively better runner than Kara. That is absolutely incorrect. How on earth could you possibly come to that conclusion?