Running training for 10/11 year olds

jokedawg wrote:

here's an idea:

recreational soccer & active lifestyle from an early age...

track in middle school with no real training (maybe 1-2 miles a week maximum) continue soccer

Start serious, regimented training in 9th grade or age 14.

If you try to run competitively at age 11 you will burn out half way through high school (if you're lucky)

I started racing seriously at the age of 10... AAU Age group track and cross country.. At the age of 11 I ran a 2:29, 880... By time I reached High School I was a burned out mid packer.. Did'nt run in college.. Found renewed enthusiasm in my early 20's... I could'nt agree more with Jokedawg... I should have been a front runner in High School and at the very least, decent in College....

wasnt mary decker a doper? i read somewhere on the interent that she was, so yeah, maybe not at a youthful age, but not an idol for me

daddy daddy wrote:

jokedawg wrote:

If you try to run competitively at age 11 you will burn out half way through high school (if you're lucky)

I'm glad Mary Decker didn't listen to you.

I love how people make up all these "rules" for other people.

If you want to place limits on yourself fine, but why limit the potential of others?

Why don't you give us a summary of Decker's college career; she had plenty of lean years in there. Overall, an exceptional talent.

This will get us a bit off the original topic (different age group) but when Mary Decker was at Colorado (I believe she was attending CU?), that's when she got hooked up with Dick Quax and he put her on a gradual build-up program up to 90 miles a week at very easy pace. I can't recall how long she did that but, naturally, she could not compete adequately during build-up. That's what you probably mean by "lean years". You know, during the winter, when there's no flower or no fruit; that's when the three grows roots deep down the ground. You don't see anything from outside but, without that, you will not see anything at all when the spring comes. By the time you see fruit, most of the "ground work" has been done. Most people only see fruit and flowers; but that's only the icing on the cake. You need to see what they did BEFORE they got there. Same thing with training young kids. I believe many great distance runners came from soccer background, not because of those sprints; but because of hours of activities and all the body coordination movements kids engage without even thinking about it. Running on dead flat area for an hour is completely different from running over rugged cross country course for an hour. Lydiard used to say "cross country running is the greatest conditioner." Playing soccer is very similar to cross country fartlek (except for hills!). They develop their "roots" not because of all the sprints, but because of EVERYTHING they engage in the game of soccer.

(*No dirty talk about Quax and Mary Decker here, PLEASE! This is a PG-13 thread!)

What do Earl's hind quarters have to do with this? Ewwwwww.

[quote]jokedawg wrote:

If you try to run competitively at age 11 you will burn out half way through high school (if you're lucky)

Ive never heard so much rubbish. Have people gone soft? I was in a club at 8 and I remember lying about my age because it was only 9 year olds who could race in official meets. I also raced everyday in the playground and at the bus stop waiting for the bus. I broke my arm running into a wall which was a finish line trying to beat somebody.

i played football (soccer) every morning lunchtime and after school for years and then went and did 50m repeats or 200m repeats at the running club.

25 years old now. training 2x per day and as hungry as ever to run and play football!!

go easy....I saw many a kid burn out, hate running and resent the parents and coaches later in high school when they quit.

I don't consider keeping young children from competitive atomosphere "sissy" or "soft" whatever you might want to call it. Likewise, just because you participated in a "competition", I would not necessarily consider that being competitive and "tough". That's the same as my daughter paricipating Treveling Team or AAU basketball since she's 10. Even though they count "wins" and "losses", it's still a play and "fun" for them. They take "competition" seriously but it is still, and should be, a kid's play.

While I personally don't like to generalize things and put the "formula" onto anything; we still need to understand that some kids are naturally more aggressive and competitive and might excell just fine in the competitive environment while others may not. However "competitive" you were when you were 8 and however great an athlete you are right now, seeing one success story wouldn't make it the right way. I would still encourage young children to stay away from highly competitive environment until they acquire the love for the sport and learnt the proper way to mentally handle the outcoe, particularly defeat. Or I'll take it back; some kids are just not mature enough mentally to handle his/her own success--they tend to get big-headed and look down on slower runners and treat them as if they are the "lesser" people. When you "coach" young children, you need to be their "educator", not an "athletic trainer". Maturity in athletics is much more than simply running faster; particularly at their young ages.

Nobby, 2 questions: when did you start running & do you have kids? If the answer to #2 is yes, have you encouraged them to go on sustained runs over 5 minutes, and if so, at what age?

Scotth:

I have one daughter who is now 14 (teenager!). She has been involved in basketball for a number of years which she decided to drop this year to concentrate on "acting". She at least once was a pretty darn good runner. Her school had a sport day when she was 4th or 5th grade and she ran the second fastest time for 50m out of her grade--boys and girls. I have a picture of her sprinting full out and her form was so powerful and relaxed and good (I think she was 9 or 10), that I got a call from Dick Brown of Eugene, OR (we included that picture for our Christmas card) and he said, "When she turns 17, can I start coaching her?" Perhaps a half joke, I'm sure... Unfortunately I could see her form chanegd a lot once she started wearing those thick bulky rigid BB shoes... (yes, I'm a minimalist!).

We aways encourage her to do some sort of activities. We do lots of cycling and walking during the summer. She has run over 20 minutes before; she has run a couple of miles with my wife who runs marathons (3:47); I've gotten her out for a 3-mile run on a trail (with lots of walking breaks) when she was, I'd say, 10. She's "competed" some "competitions" before including those kids 500m or 1 mile. She always starts out in a middle of a pack, jogging with her friends, smiling. During the summer, once in a while, we all jog down to a coffee shop by the lake, a little more than a mile, with books; and have some cookies anc coffee cooler and read. Most of the time, we end up walking home... But that's fine.

Last year when she was 13, she told me that she ran a mile in her PE class in 6:40. Not a bad time but there was another girl I know who's run sub-6. I tease her that I want to coach her (friend who ran sub-6) but NEVER in a context that that's better than 6:40.

She always tells us that she doesn't like running (more like because I want to watch running coverage on TV when she wants to watch SpongeBob). She's met Arthur Lydiard, Dick Quax, Lorraine Moller, Kathrine Switzer, among others and wore Lorraine's bronze medal around her neck. She can't help but get some sort of influence and inspiration from running, living with me and my wife who also runs. But she continues to refuse liking running and that's fine (now she claims that she wants to do pole vault in high school...). I see some potential in her; but one thing is that you just CANNOT squeeze something out of them. A lot of coaching is "guiding" and "being patient".

I'll tell you a story: we used to bring her to Japanese school in Mpls. The school was designed for families who would eventually go back to Japan, in other words, they would try to follow and teach the general cariculum. My daughter didn't need that. They give us so much home work because they have to keep up; but for us, US school's homework was #1 priority. Besides, I didn't want to beat her to finish her work so, more often than not, if she didn't want to, I let her skip all the homework. Japanese School's teachers were all criticizing me and blaming me for her slow progress but I absolutely refused to push her. Their drip-out rate after kindergarten was something like 2/3 at the time. In the end, we dropped out but she still continues to learn Japanese and, if anything, enjoys studying Japanese now better than ever. Slow learning, sure. But she still continues. The desire MUST come from the learner. As a parent/coach, the best you can do is somehow create the environment, sometimes manupulate, so their desire will eventually come forth. This young lady I'm coaching, for her motivation, I flew her to Colorado and got her meet with Steve Jones, Frank Shorter and Lorraine Moller. I set up a lunch with Carrie Toleffson. She's 25 but I'm training her really really light. And hopefully desire to train more will come from her, not from me.

Okay, I digressed a bit; hope some of what I said actually answered your question! ;o)

Some more anecdotal information.

I have a 10 year old daughter. Two years ago, when she was eight, she decided she wanted to run a 5k with me. I ran with her three times a week...1.5 miles twice a week and 3 miles once a week. We made sure to keep it very easy and let her set the pace. She did great and we really enjoyed running the race together. She then decided she didn't want to run one again, so we haven't. This winter at 10 she decided to run a 5k again. We have started "training" again. Same thing, she wants to do it and we keep it nice and easy. She also runs a series of summer track meets that my running club puts on. She runs the mile in about 7:30, basically off of no training. She's the faster kid in her class when they run the fitness mile--not any sort of incredible time for her age but she probably has a little talent. She swims in the summer and only runs when she wants to.

I don't think its bad for her to run. If she really, really wanted to do something more competitive I would consider it, but I'm happy she is holding off. She wants to run middle school cross country next year. The coach plays games and has them do some light aerobic running and has the right philosophy, to help the kids learn to like running.

One other thing: Yes, I don't push her to do any running. What I do push her (and she hates me doing it) is things like... She likes to sit at the dining table, for breakfast, with one knee up. She tends to hunch back a bit. I tell her that it's not good for becoming a Broadway actress with a bad posture. She does weight train a bit at the club; when she does the pull-down (a dupliacte of pull-ups but you pull a bar down), I tell her to do both front and back to balance out. She likes to do sit-ups so I tell her to strengthen her back as well (again to balance out). We TRY to have a healthy diet; lots of vegies and organic food, at least one fruit for breakfast and all colors for dinner. When I go shopping with her, I always park kinda far out and she always complains; but, hey, it's a few extra steps of walking!

It seems like 95% of these responses don't answer your original question JJ. Try looking at

www.justrun.org

a Great youth running/health program developed by the Big Sur International Marathon organization. You'll find all sorts of information in the "advice for leader" section on workouts, drills, relays, etc. that kids really enjoy.

Training them for your race is just doing a mix of having them run a bit more each week to build their endurance, and then mixing in the relays and drills on other days. They have fun, work cooperatively, and learn about health and fitness as well.

You can even register your group by following the information on the website as well.

Drossin, as she was called then, was a national champion at age 11. Somewhere around 5:30 for the mile. She ran track workouts and raced often.

I wonder why no one wants to consider the correlation between the sports the US excels at and the age at which children focus on those sports. If track wants to be successful, it needs to completely adopt the USA Swimmng model. (Less the multi time gold medalists smoking bowls).

It is impossible to 'train' prepubescent children. VO2 max cannot be altered through training at this age. Research has shown that. The children should be doing short fast stuff emphasizing fun.