Any other college runners feel like they race every morning????

Suggestion wrote:

If I was actually in HS--I'm not--your comment might have stung. Interesting how you can clairvoyantly extrapolate someone's times from their forum post.

As for your nonsense about sub-15:00, 15:00 for 5K is a great time It's not elite, but it is 4:50 per mile for the distance.

I suppose we should take it from your grossly inaccurate claims that you're one of the many 13:30 5K runners on this board? Where is the link to your results?

It's more than obvious that YOU are the one who has been transplanted from Dyestat. I would be shocked if you've reached the voting age..

Suggestion is a HUGE douche.

What is wrong with being in High School? Oh I am sorry, I haven't had the time to live 4 more years yet, I guess I am a dork.

Douche Pointer Outer; go back to dyestat.

Douche Pointer Outer wrote:

Suggestion is a HUGE douche.

What is wrong with being in High School? Oh I am sorry, I haven't had the time to live 4 more years yet, I guess I am a dork.

Never said there was anything wrong with being in high school.

There is something wrong with you, though, namely, being in high school and still being unable to read the English language. Try Hooked on Phonics.

I thought this was going to be a thread about college kids busting hard morning runs every day, sans coaching input. On Monday, the kid who didn't race the prior weekend for "whatever reason" hammers the morning run. Everyone follows along. Tuesday, kid number 2 who got dropped Monday morning or afternoon hammers the pack. Wednesday, kid number 3, who was tired from Monday and dropped Tuesday, re-energizes his manhood and hammers the group. Repeat, although often people will not hammer on Thursday or Friday with a Saturday meet. Of course I have left out the evening workout heroes, but you get the picture. By Saturday, kid number 1 can't race so he rests and repeats again on Monday. That is why it is ok to run XC at a school where you are 1 to 2 minutes faster than everyone over 5 miles, you ALWAYS have someone who wants to hammer and you can always take it easy if you need to.

This thread is freaking awesome.

I like Suggestion and Douche Pointer Outer...

By the way, to the original poster, your coach is a moron.

A HUGE moron.

There is nothing wrong with taking your "easy" days seriously, but he is going to hurt all of you. Running 6:30 pace is fine, I think you can recover at that pace if you are not hurting, but sometimes you NEED to go slower, for whatever reason. If your dork of a coach is there yelling at you, he is an idiot.

Why is he following you on easy days anyway? Where do you go to school?

What is Dyestate?

easy. Easy is different for different people. But easy is not easy when it is not easy. And when is it not easy? When you are not recoverying. And when are you not recovering? When you are not running easy. its very easy.

jaguar1:

Irrespective of whether my head is up my "arse," please share with the rest of the group what programs MANDATE (as is the case here) that all "recovery" runs be done no slower than 1 minute within race pace. I want names of institutions that you have specific knowledge of, not general assertions. Please re-read my post. I don't believe that we disagree. I am well aware that many collegiate runners turn recovery runs into ad hoc tempo runs, but that was not what this discussion was originally about, nor was it what I was refering to in my reply. In sum, unless you are a fantastically hot female, please kindly refrain from refering to my "arse" in future correspondence.

Rob M

We are encouraged at the UW to run most runs at 6 min pace

If by UW you mean Univ. of Wash., then tell Bazzi to quit working you guys so hard. If by "most" you mean "all" and "encouraged" equates to "mandated," then I stand corrected.

vanjr:

Bingo, we have a winner!

Listen, a recovery run is that to recover...but at the same point why be out there at such a slow pace, why not just take the day off and recover? you'll recover much faster, it seems that most coacher also follow trends. Wethere you like or hate Brad Hudson, he is right. Every runner is diffrent, we all recover slower or faster, but there are "real" physiological variables that regulate recovery. Mainly, it is your HR in relation to you max heart rate. The right percentage is needed to promote recovery and enduce a continual endurance development of the body. Your coach cannot argue with that, but i'm sure he would. You will continue to tear yourself down, through excessive wear and tear of, not just the pace, but the pounding of feeling heavy that happens to your body from being overly fatigued.

In the end, if you can't run, what good will you be to the team and your goals. Injury looms around the corner, so i'm sure you can figure some way to circumvent this. Maybe point out that you are getting hurt, and feel like you have a stress fracture coming on.

But, HR is the best way to go on recovery runs, listen to your body. No one else knows it like you do. Carlos Lopes droped his long time coach 2 years before he won the gold in the marathon in LA. The record still stands today. He was notorious for listening to his body. He might go hard 3 to 4 days in a row, and go long periods of time without a workout. He credits listening to his body accutely to his success.

GL

I just got caught up on this thread, but got sick of reading so I skipped the last 2 pages. In reference to the first 3, however, I simply cannot believe any world class runner does recovery runs at 9min/mile pace. I challenge whoever posted these claims to go out to a track and JOG (9min pace is not running) 9 minute miles and tell me you couldnt walk rather comfortably at that pace. If there ARE any male xc runners that can break 27 minutes for 8k and run recovery runs between 8-9 minutes per mile, could you please explain to me what you think this is doing to benefit you?? I personally see a day off of running, maybe some cross training and stretching, being just as beneficial.

I got bored reading most of the intervening posts, but has anyone asked what mileage the original poster is running? I think one has a harder time recovering "hauling ass" (in the elequant words of another poster) every day if you're putting in 100+ miles weeks, than one would running 65 mile weeks.

There's also a lot of other variables. Do you get enough sleep? Is your nutrition good? Are you stressed? Feeling tired on runs is a product of many variables, not just pace of recovery runs.

I, too, get annoyed at the One True Way attitude of some people. People toss out left and right examples of people who have had success running recover days fast, or running them slow, or running super mileage, or running low mileage, or running in Nike Frees, or running in trainers, etc, etc, and thus because it worked for one person, it should work for all.

So is the coach a moron? Possibly. But for people, based on one post, to freely spout such advice as "quit the team, train on your own so you can race against your old team and beat them" is really just kind of silly.

But that's why we love Letsrun.

Over the summer i built my miles up to 70 a week. (yes an all time high for me, only got serious about it recently) Most of this was slow in the begining as i became more use to it i kept my milage at 70 and began to speed some runs up a little through august.

Now i am at 80 miles a week for the past 2 weeks, including racing and workouts. Not to mention a faster pace on mainly every run i do.

I told coach i was only at 70 durring the summer and they werent as fast as they are now. I dont even think he heard what i was saying before i got another ear full of bs about 1 min off 8k race pace. and if you are behind someone you are faster than on raceday in a training run something is wrong.

and by the way i can break 27 min and i would love to be able to run at 8 to 9 min pace at my own will. I feel easy days should be easy and hard days should be hard.

Read the posts that trackhead put up with regards to Renato Canova's athletes.

Comments like yours are what motivate me to post on this thread. At least you are not claiming that jogging at this pace causes you great pain.

Yes, one mile on a track at nine minute pace is ridiculously easy, try 15-20 at this pace over hilly, soft terrain. That is not the point though. Nor is it anyone's claim that running 140 miles per week at 8-9 minute mile pace will make you a champion.

The point is that a few days a week, (recovery/easy days), would be better served if the athlete slowed their pace considerably, (2+ minutes per mile), from their 10k race pace and significantly increased the volume on these days.

Many people will argue that doing all of their runs at a "respectable" pace is what works best for them. Like I said earlier, it probably has worked for many great DI runners.

But this just brings me back to my original question, how much better might they be if they tried doing much longer, slower recovery runs. Just a thought . . .

jd wrote:

Listen, a recovery run is that to recover...but at the same point why be out there at such a slow pace, why not just take the day off and recover? you'll recover much faster,

Close but not quite. A recovery run is intended to help you recover, yes, but while at the same time training your aerobic system. Recovery is not itself the only goal of the run. Recovery while training is.

jd wrote:

Listen, a recovery run is that to recover...but at the same point why be out there at such a slow pace, why not just take the day off and recover? you'll recover much faster, it seems that most coacher also follow trends. GL

Not true. True easy/regeneration runs allow you to raise your body's pH (a good thing) closer to a state of equilibrium more than just sitting on your butt does. Plus, it provides an aerobic stimulus. That is why you don't just do hard workouts and then take 1-2 days off before repeating.

Digger P. wrote:

I just got caught up on this thread, but got sick of reading so I skipped the last 2 pages. In reference to the first 3, however, I simply cannot believe any world class runner does recovery runs at 9min/mile pace. I challenge whoever posted these claims to go out to a track and JOG (9min pace is not running) 9 minute miles and tell me you couldnt walk rather comfortably at that pace. If there ARE any male xc runners that can break 27 minutes for 8k and run recovery runs between 8-9 minutes per mile, could you please explain to me what you think this is doing to benefit you?? I personally see a day off of running, maybe some cross training and stretching, being just as beneficial.

I can tell what your problem is. You check splits or at least check your average pace on easy runs. Pace is irrelevant. Feel is much more important. I think running a recovery day on the track would be much more painful (mentally) than running 9 minute miles. By slowing down from 7 minute miles to 8 minute miles and adding more mileage I went from a 17 minute 5k runner to a 15 minute 5k runner in one year. Let me turn the tables on you, why does running 6:30 miles instead of 7:30 miles benefit you?

The biggest farce in the history of the world is that you need to practice running fast everyday in order to race fast. I would contend that simply doing 4-6 strides after an easy run stimulate fast twitch muscle fibers in a more positive manner (for racing success) than pounding an easy run.

Here is an interested tidbit: If you want to race faster, all of your runs need to be faster. I am not saying that mandating a certain pace is the accepted or most practiced form of coaching, but as you get fitter, even your recovery runs will be easier and faster.

For example, (now i am a girl-so take what i am saying with a grain of salt, hear the sarcasm i hope), I am an average d1 runner, 2:10, 4:35, 17:30. My long runs (10-12miles) are typically 6:45-7min pace, my recovery runs are just so, but they end up being like 7-7:15pace, and it feels fine, morning/shakeout runs will start at 7:30 and end up a bit faster as my body wakes up, and tempos-yeah i don't bother clocking anymore because i know my pace is going to be the same. Granted, I am not ever going to get faster, but that is my talent, other women on the team are exactly the same as far as pace and they run a lot faster than i do. Before I transferred, I only ran "fast" on hard days, and I would make myself go "slow" on recovery days, even when i didn't feel so bad. Then, as i got more fit, i got faster on all runs.

Definetly speak with your coach about a real recovery day, but as you get more fit, your race times will be great, and those morning "races" will feel like a jog in the park.