Anyone see the Mcdougal website?
Anyone see the Mcdougal website?
what is the link to the website?
what is the link to the website?
So, yet again, here's my latest...
A friend at a biomechanics lab let me try their alter-g treadmill. The thinking at the time was that my foot was the culprit in this injury. If I got on the anti-gravity and reduced my body weight to the lowest setting of 30%, I would have very minimal ground contact and thus without my foot strike really being part of the equation, I would be sort of removing it as a variable from the situation. The expected result was that I should be able to run normally without the loss of coordination coming up. HOWEVER, quite the opposite happened. With minimal ground contact on either side running at 5:00/mi pace, I looked as though I was galloping on my bad left leg. My bad left leg cycle took 20% longer to complete than the good right side. Essentially it was harder for me to bring around my left leg at the same pace as the right. I felt like my left leg was truly struggling to keep up with the right. Even with very minimal ground contact, knee splay was obvious on the bad left leg, and the left foot drifted farther and father from the midline. Again, as in my attempts at road racing with this injury, it looked like my bad left leg was trying to ride a horse.
The conclusion of the alter-g experiment was that my loss of coordination was stemming from a problem in MY HIP and not the foot. Other than weaknesses/imbalances in the hip muscles, I had never investigated/considered the orthopedics of the hip as possibly being the culprit of my problem.
I arranged a dr. appt looking for a referral for a hip MRI. The dr suggested I do a couple quick xrays to rule out anything obvious before an MRI, just to get an idea of the structure of each hip compared to each other, check for a small stress fracture or something... To my shock, the xray taken looking down on my hip with my knee flared out to the side came back with a knob about the size of a golf ball at the proximal/top end of my femur.
Not the dr that took the xrays, but the dr I am working closely with in Phx who got a copy of the xrays identified this as myositis, or a calcification of muscle. My high hamstring had this huge calcification right where it met with the adductor and attached to the glut. My loss of coordination is an inability to get proper extension and adduction out of my left leg--- this sort of deformity to my hamstring attachment could be, finally, the real smoking gun. I've brought up before how it feels like my ham shuts down in the swing phase...this could be why.
Just by luck, thinking I had never considered anything structural in the hip and drawing at straws, thought, what the hell, I'll look into the hip labrum, went to a dr, and happened to have xrays that showed this massive tumor looking thing that could be the root of all my problems.
The next step was to have an MRI to confirm the calcification size and make sure it was limited to that spot, and others weren't up in the glut as well or in the adductor.
Unfortunately, the dr that took the xray thought the myositis was unimportant so my MRIs he wrote referrals for only looked for a hip labrum tear. (In his office for the initial appt where he took the xrays before writing the MRI referral he said, "I'm not going to call this myositis till I see it on an MRI. If this calcification was to blame for your injury, I'd expect you to have problems with extension and adduction while you're trying to run." Were you LISTENING? That is exactly what I said my problem is.) Once the MRI reports came back with no mention of anything other than "no evidence of labral tear", I asked for re-reads on the MRIs for any calcification in the soft tissues, but the addendum that came back said the imaging wasn't complete to see anything and to go get an xray if I thought it was myositis. Uh, yeah, thanks. Already had the xray and the MRI was to confirm. F*** you. To me your addendum means that even though you're supposed to be responsible for everything on the hip MRI, you skimped on the scans you took and didn't take a complete hip MRI. You just took the images that would allow you to see the labrum. Great. What do you care? In your eyes, I'm not a customer that has paid money for something- you just judge me to be some uneducated patient that needs to be hurried on their way and disregarded because the doctor always knows best. Yeah right. This is why I've been injured this long... I'll just move on to another doc to get another referral and redo the MRI.
Ugh. ANYWAY, my point in all this is that I was wondering if any of you have ever had your hips looked at while trying to get to the bottom of your loss of coordination injuries? If you went in to a dr for an xray to check for a hip stress fracture, the way they take the film, it would show any calcification at the proximal end of the femur. It was mere chance that I ever even saw the lump at the top of my femur. It looks like a lump with webbing. I know most of you think I've cried wolf so many times now with all my ideas and could give two shits was my latest theory is, but if any more of you have this same symptom, it could be the common connection between all of us that we're looking for...
You need to see Ron Huruska at the Hruska clinic. Then come back and report your findings. I think your case will be very interesting to him. I posted this the other day somewhere else. The question asked was why I only get injured on my right side.
You will have to see Ron Hruska or Lori Thomsen at the Hruska clinic to argue your point. Please Google him and do some research. Better yet go to one of his many classes he teaches around the world. I was incorrect about your weight be off balance right to left. What I should have said was your right side weighs more. Further explain why it might be harder getting on to your left hip. Our liver weighs about 3-4 pounds and this is on the right side. On the left there is a spleen which weighs a 1/2 of a pound. 2 lobes of our lungs on the left opposed to 3 on the right. This causes your body weight to sit more on your right side than the left. I most certainly am not an expert and will not disagree with someone who teaches anatomy. This is common pattern. I should have more closely read my post before pushing send. The question was why he only gets injured on the right side? Well this is a very common problem a good many of us have. According to Ron Hruska the smartest physical therapist that ever lived is saying one of the leading causes why. I used to be one of his patients. I saw him about 4 years ago. I only ever got injured on my right side. Every physical therapist only worked on my right leg. It was a weak left glute med muscle.
I don't get injured on my right side though... I have no complaints on the right side.
My left leg is the leg with the loss of coordination.
But, as I posted, I now know that myositis has been found where my hamstring attaches to my glut med. Looking back in my old running log at my first comment when I had my first workout many years ago when the loss of coordination happened, I wrote that it felt like something was wrong with my hamstring, that maybe I had tweaked it, or something, because it felt like it was pulling. Later on through that training year I would refer to it as a "hitch in my step" when it would happen. My problem has gotten progressively worse over time and I would surmise that is because the calcification is growing larger, and my ham, adductors and gluts are thus getting weaker and weaker, perpetuating the cycle...
I understand that you're saying your glut med is weak and I agree that mine is too. Often on this thread many of us have commented that this injury is related to muscle weakness/imbalance. But, I've always argued that there had to be some underlying reason as to why--- that we didn't all of a sudden develop a random weakness for no reason. I believe I've found my reason and I was just checking to see if anyone else on this thread had a similar symptom at the proximal end of their femur.
So it sounds like your right leg is your problem? Have you had any hip xrays that might show calcification at the proximal end of your right femur?
About two months ago I went to visit the UVA speed clinic after hearing about the success that Josh McDougal had as a result of visiting the clinic (listen to the Running Times interview).
The clinic puts you on a high tech treadmill which analyzes all kinds of force in your body, in an effort to get to the root of the problem. After examining me, the PT told me that he sees about 10 of these cases a year (one leg shutting down during high intensity running)and usually about 9 of them are able to recover fully. He said that this condition happens on both the right and left leg of runners, which seems to mirror what people on this thread are saying (some complain about it on the left, some on the right).
His diagnosis of me was very similar to the type of stuff that has already been discussed here. In a nutshell, he determined that I have horrendous balance when running, a very wide foot strike and extremely wide arm swing. The wide arms are compensatory for the poor balance. He said that these high lateral forces require me to have high levels of hip abduction (glut) strength which I do not have, which results in excessive hip drop on the left. This causes my form to deteriorate when running fast or with fatigue, which is the main culprit. I always felt "askew" when running on the flat surface and this seems to support that.
The wide foot strike is due to a tight IT band. The wide foot strike also causes the wide arm swing.
I limp off my left leg and do extra work in the braking component of my right leg. My right leg (good leg) hits the ground with nearly twice as much force as the left.
Poor proprioception and balance in single leg stance.
The goal is to increase IT band mobility to allow the foot to land under the center of mass, increase glut control to stabilize pelvis in one leg stance and to use specific foot muscle control to achieve balance.
So, I've been using the foam roller a lot, doing a few stretches to increase hip flexibility and doing a ton of balancing work (mainly single leg balance with eyes closed).
My balance has improved tremendously, I couldn't stand on one leg for more than two seconds without falling to the side. Now I'm able to stand for 30-50 seconds on one foot with my eyes closed and hands down. At this point I can't say that it has translated into the running yet, although I do feel like I am running less wide. Sometimes I will go and practice running on one of the painted lines on the track and I can now do this without any issue. I am hopeful this will take care of the problem, but I know it's going to take a long time.
Just I thought I'd share this....
Ron is the inventor of protonics.It is a leg brace that activates your left hamstring. He also says your left hamstring is a major culprit. The pelvis tilts down due to strong quad and weak hamstring. Your right side tilts back due to an over active hamstring and weak glute max. Go see Ron. About 10 pages ago there was talk about weak inner thigh. This will also be discussed. My problem was a weak left hamstring,weak left inner thigh,really tight right inner thigh,really over active right hamstring and a weak right glute max. This shut off my left glute med muscle completely. If it is not a muscle imbalance it could be motor ataxia. Do you get dizzy,feel like loosing your balance.I have seen every specialist around. They all treated the right leg.The problem is almost always the left,and the hamstrig is one of the leading causes. Please see Ron and report his findings back to us in 6 weeks.
track dude-
Did your insurance cover your visit to the UVA Speed Clinic, and if not, how much did it cost? I've taken the past 10 months off and put on 25 lbs from lifting (and poor eating habits), but the past couple of weeks I've done some running and the problem is just as bad, only it seems worse because I'm out of shape. The only thing I can do while normal is sprint.
From reading the above few recent posts, my view is that its got to do with the back, esp for Miss Osage County and track dude.
For this you've got to realise that no amount of work on the muscles alone are going to solve it for good. You'll have temporal relief, that's all.
Work on stabilising your trunk, activating the transverse abdominus (TVA), "pulling the navel in to meet your sacrum", so to speak. This lengthens your spine and frees up your hips to move naturally, because the TVA wraps itself around your trunk like a protective and supportive corset, such that your pelvis and legs do not have to take the load.
Like what "Runner PT" recommended several pages ago, work on the TVA from different positions. Develop a strong core and learn how to activate it during your running and all other daily activities. Even if its a disc problem, if u consistently position your frame in a healthful pose, the body can then heal itself more effectively over time.
My view: Don't waste any more time and money on scans and consultations. Get a list of exercises from your doctor/therapist or from the internet and learn how to do them right, and then to apply them for all daily activities. Good posture via correctly and habitually activating TVA is the key.
Why do I say that its the back/spine?
Because many of you have been doing stretching and strengthening for months on end, and yet you are still diagnosed as having "weak glutes", or "tight hamstrings", or "tight hip flexors", etc. Some even has imbalance problems, in that they have poor proprioception.
If its purely a muscle problem, then you will see changes as you stretch and strengthen. If you do not se results, then its because you are not habitually positioning your body in a mechanically sound way, which leads to other muscles taking over the job of the prime movers and this leads to distortion of movement patterns.
For example, if you habitually round your back, your glutes are not functional. It is your low back and hamstrings that take over to stabilise and mobilise your body. Thus your posture is what some would call "hamstring dominant". As such the glutes do not fire and this leaves your femur with no support, and it will drift more forward as the hamstring is applied instead, and this leads to pain and/or nerve impingement, such that you experience numbness, 'tightness', spasm.
Over time the low back muscles tire out from overloading and this causes spasm in that area, and nerves of the posterior aspect of the body, including places as high up as neck/shoulders/upp back and as low downwards as calf and feet are affected. The nerves firing the glutes are impeded and this means they do not function at all, which leads to perpetual weakness, no matter how hard and frequently you train them.
A rounded back also causes rotation of the pelvis, leading to severe misalignment of the trunk. This misalignment alone cause muscles and nerves of one side to be impeded and this again leads to loss of coordination.
The important thing is to maintain a neutral spine. Always. This frees up the nerves and allows muscles full range of motion and coordination.
I have written that good posture is the key to this coordination problem. But HOW you obtain and maintain that posture is as crucial, because if all you are doing is using the more superficial abdominal and back muscles (rectus abdominus, erector spinae, latissimus dorsi, rhomboids, etc) alone, that wil still lead to frustration.
The key is again the TVA. Obtaining and maintaining that feeling of TVA engagement thro out daily life and activities, in conjunction with activating the aforementioned postural muscles, will set the spine at neutral, and enable the nerves to fire the respective uncoordinated muscles.
But this demands a lifelong commitment to be disciplined, as this loss of coordination is fundamentally a lifestyle issue, as much as it is also a postural and biomechanical one.
I have been having very similar symptoms....Basically, my quads feel tight and dead. Usually my left leg is the main culprit, but when things get bad, my right quad goes too. This isn't a problem that happens everyday, but it's been enough to prevent me from training seriously since October of 2008. My muscles feel like they aren't gliding over one another properly. It's kind of a stiff feeling. ART and Graston have helped some.
I recently visited UVA's medical center. I did not get to the Speed Clinic, but the doctor and PT I saw were very knowledgable. They said that my Glutes were very weak, and that more specifically they didn't fire properly.As a result, my hip flexors were being overloaded and fatiguing very quickly. Over a hundred miles a week an imbalance will make itself known. The PT even said he wouldn't be surprised if I had some nerve or vascular issues going on that would only be seen when i'm running. EMG and vascluar tests at rest showed nothing.
Standing with my feet together and toes pointing straight ahead, my knees turn inward, and when my knees are pointed straight ahead, my feet are about 45 degrees outward. This natural leg structure has led to very very weak glutes, and they gave me glute and lower abdominal exercises to stabilize my hips and take the stress off the hip flexors. the exercises are more motor memory than strength oriented. I'm almost a week into this, and am to report back after 3 weeks. Very frustrating problem, and I'll try to use my experience to help the rest of you.
also, I would be very interested to hear more about myositis. I have heard of this before, but I am not too knowledgable about it. [quote]Miss Osage County wrote:
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But, as I posted, I now know that myositis has been found where my hamstring attaches to my glut med.
mlbfan -
I don't think insurance will cover the speed clinic, although I didn't actually try. The whole experience cost $450, including a 3D DVD with customized exercises. Part of it possibly could be covered under insurance because there was a PT component to it, which was no different than any other PT evaluation.
track dude-
How long ago did you visit the speed clinic and has it been beneficial for you? I'm not just interested for running's sake, but rather I just want to feel normal while walking around.
Thank you for taking the time to post. I have had similar symptoms to what have been posted on this thread. Besides some periodic lower back pain from an injury several years ago, symptoms first manifest themselves, upon taking up running a couple of years ago, as a hamstring irritation. Finally, after significant 'palsy' and injury in the left lower extremety, an MRI diagnosed a bulging disc impinging nerve. Can you please direct me to helpful treatment and therapy info?
foomiler wrote:
I have written that good posture is the key to this coordination problem. But HOW you obtain and maintain that posture is as crucial, because if all you are doing is using the more superficial abdominal and back muscles (rectus abdominus, erector spinae, latissimus dorsi, rhomboids, etc) alone, that wil still lead to frustration.
The key is again the TVA. Obtaining and maintaining that feeling of TVA engagement thro out daily life and activities, in conjunction with activating the aforementioned postural muscles, will set the spine at neutral, and enable the nerves to fire the respective uncoordinated muscles.
But this demands a lifelong commitment to be disciplined, as this loss of coordination is fundamentally a lifestyle issue, as much as it is also a postural and biomechanical one.
Has anyone had nerve conduction tests done while exercising. I've had two EMG tests done at rest. The first one found that my quads were "pristine" and that my lower legs were denervated. This made no sense, and the second found no denervation anywhere. I understand that these tests are subject to a degree of interpretation, and considering that my sympotms seem to be exercise induced they may have been of little help.
I'm becoming more and more convinced that barring something like myositis, which I 'd still like to learn more about, that my problem is weak, disengaged glutes putting extra work on my hip flexors (psoas, illiacus, rectus femoris, and sartorious) which are reacting by tightening and putting pressure on the femoral nerve. This and/or some inflamation in that area are causing the nerve supply to be cut off with exercise because it is only the inside of my left quad that experiences any deadness.