So, any updates? I just got to this thread, very interesting stuff. You mentioned that your runner was offered a decent scholarship from a state school. What was that based on? Maybe I missed this, but surely it couldn't have been for the 19:15 5k, which is certainly a good time considering she's essentially a converted sprinter, but not necessarily scholarship-worthy.
Update on the last 6 days...
After the workout on Monday, the plan was to come back on Thursday after a 40 minute recovery run tuesday and 45 minute training run wednesday, but the forecast was looking bad (30+ mph winds) so I decided to have her workout on Wednesday off one days rest. We did the 200/400/200 that I discussed in the first post in the thread. (30 secs between intervals, but 3:30 between sets as opposed to 3 mins to make up for going on 1 days rest) She was also running it solo this time as opposed to the first time when she had 3 boys to push her. Splits on the 200s were all between 33-36 and the 400s went 77, 76, 75, 76, 74, 75, 74, 72. Not as fast on average as last time, but that's understandable given that it was on one days rest and she was running it alone. As the last really hard effort before the race, I was pleased with how it came out.
Thursday was a 40 minute recovery run, Friday was a day off and Saturday was a 45 minute training run. (her training pace is 740-8 mins) Today was some faster stuff to sharpen up, 4x400, 4x200 hard with ample recovery, 400 jog after the 4s + some time standing (total of 5 minutes) and jogging across the infield (total of 2:30) on the 200s. Splits on the 400s were 68, 69, 69, 67 and the 200s were 32, 33, 33, 32.
The next couple of days will be a recover run and a training run. The last workout will be wednesday and the race is on saturday.
SlipperyPete1340 wrote:
So, any updates? I just got to this thread, very interesting stuff. You mentioned that your runner was offered a decent scholarship from a state school. What was that based on? Maybe I missed this, but surely it couldn't have been for the 19:15 5k, which is certainly a good time considering she's essentially a converted sprinter, but not necessarily scholarship-worthy.
The school that has offered doesn't have a great girls distance program so they offered her based on potential. They can't typically sign girls who are in the 215/5 flat range so I think it will end up being a great move on their part if she ends up there. If the race goes well next week, my hope is that she'll have a few more options. A coach at a better program in a neighboring state wants her to visit in January and said they would give her some level of money if she runs 5:10.
scott fuqua, right?
You're overthinking it with this girl. Vin's (and MFR's) workouts were never complicated. The magic was getting people strong and getting them excited at the end of a race. The guys who ran the best were the guys who thought the least.
Get some boys to pace your girl through a real comfortable, even-split 1200 around 3:45-3:47. Then let her open up and see what she can do.
whoops, just saw the TT splits again. make it an even-split 3:48-3:50.
rupp-certified saladbar wrote:
I am offering advice
FormerCardRunner wrote:
If you want someone to take your advice seriously, you ought to try offering it without being so condescending.
LOL. You see what you did there?
Probably not. Let me help you.
Mirror. You. Look.
Bye.
The race is today- how did it go?
intrinsic wrote:
The race is today- how did it go?
I have no idea. Why don't you as lawguy?
ask
didn't know I needed to be so precise. OK.
Hey lawguy, how did the race go?
I thought this was a pretty good thread, and it is too bad if the OP has been chased off by trolls. I really was looking forward to seeing how your girl ran.
Hey guys. Sorry, didn't get a chance to check in after I got home from the meet last night. Unfortunately, the mile went really poorly. Meet was exactly 1 hour behind when she started her warmup, but they managed to make up roughly 15 mins by combining some heats so the 50 minutes we allotted for warmup, stretching, drills etc ended up only being 35 mins. Shouldn't have been a killer, but she was pretty flustered walking up to the line because she didn't get to go through her normal routine. Combine that with the fact that she was very intimidated about trying to run what amounted to a match race against a girl who ran 503 2 weeks ago and her state of mind on the starting line was definitely not where it needed to be. The race ended up only having 6 runners and none of the other 4 broke 5:50. The plan coming in was pretty simple, stick with the elite girl for at least 1200 meters. She went out with the her through 400, (74) then coming out of the first turn of the 3rd lap, she let her open up a small gap that turned into 15 meters within the next half lap. My girl hit the 800 at 2:36. With 200 left I told her to cruise it in because she was over 100 ahead of 3rd place and there was no chance to run under 520 so I wanted to save as much as possible for the 800 in a couple of hours. Ended up running a 529 for the full mile. Obviously very disappointing. The 503 girl ran what should have been perfect splits for us (74, 2:30) so it wasn't an issue of the pace being incredibly fast. She said that once the other girl got a few meters away from her, she felt a big let down and couldn't push herself. Obviously mental toughness is an important aspect of running the 1600 though so she is going to have to learn to deal better with adversity as we move forward.
After her cool down, we talked about it for a while and I tried to stress the fact that this would be a learning experience and the best thing she could do was to put it out of her mind and focus on preparing for the 800 in 2 hours. In the 800, there were 3 girls entered with 215 seed times so we were expecting a really quick pace. As it turned out, only 1 of the 3 top girls showed up. My girl got boxed a little by some of the slower runners who tried to go out with the leaders, but fell off the pace early. 2 girls separated from the pack by about 5-8 meters at the 300 mark and split roughly 67. She did a nice job of not panicking though and got out of the pack and ended up splitting roughly 68 low. She put in a big move to catch the leaders around the 500 mark and went straight to the lead. She was able to open up a 2-3 meter gap by the 600 mark, but the 215 girl managed to run her down in the last 60 meters. Ended up running 219.3 which was a 1.6 second PR over last spring. She said she felt really good up until the last 100 meters so that was encouraging. With a faster 400 split, I think 217 high or a little faster would have been easily doable which is even more encouraging considering we haven't done any work geared specifically towards the 800. More than anything else, I was really pleased that she was able to shake off such a bad performance from earlier in the day.
The plan going forward is a light workout on new years day and then to take another shot at the 1600 in a time trial this friday. After that, regardless of the outcome, she's going to take a break because she has been training really hard since June. Hopefully everything will click and she can run under 5:10 and we can send the video out for coaches to review. My thought at this pont is that we'll be more conservative than the last time trial and shoot for a 2:32-2:34 800 split.
Anyone have ideas for the light workout on new years day? Our workout last wednesday was 4x300 @ 75 second 400 pace off 330-4 mins rest, 4x200 w/ the first 2 at 37 and the next 2 at 34 off 3 mins rest, then a couple of 150m strides starting off really easy and building into a sprint the last 40-50 meters. I felt like that was a good light sharpening up workout, but I'd certainly be open to suggestions.
Thanks again to everyone who has made a useful contribution over the last 5+ weeks in this thread. Hopefully I'll have better news to report later this week and we can wrap this thread up on a high note.
Not a bad outing...lots to learn from in that experience.
As for a tune up, try this:
- 2x150 (Simulate start-->get out and settle into rhythm) w/ walk back between
- 500-300-200 @ 76-72-68 pace w/ 300-200 jog recoveries
- 2x150 (Build-up to finishing speed) w/ walk back recoveries
1600m total volume of race modeling and race rhythm. Should be fun!
A light workout for New Years Day.
200s no faster than 38. Ideally, around 40.
10 of 'em with 2 minutes recovery.
Coach, your training and racing of this girl warrants some admonishment.
Some thoughts:
Can't believe you worked with Vin and you're on LRC asking for training theories.
What is the current strength component looking like in this phase?
You need to teach your girl to be able to roll with the punches. Warmup cut short? Fell down stairs? Suck it up buttercup (tailor this to the individual, though). You guys are getting in to dangerous thinking territory. Why is it that something just always happens to thwart your attempts?
Sounds like you've got 2 results
5:15 and 5:29. Treat this girl like a 5:20 girl, because that's what she is. We live in a real world of real results. Theory explains and speculates, but the practical applications of results rule the day.
Like another poster stated, with the time trial, make it a bi weekly thing of 1200 meters. First TT, 83s and SCAFFOLD into it over the next TTs.
bangalangadanga wrote:
A light workout for New Years Day.
200s no faster than 38. Ideally, around 40.
10 of 'em with 2 minutes recovery.
Coach, your training and racing of this girl warrants some admonishment.
Some thoughts:
Can't believe you worked with Vin and you're on LRC asking for training theories.
What is the current strength component looking like in this phase?
You need to teach your girl to be able to roll with the punches. Warmup cut short? Fell down stairs? Suck it up buttercup (tailor this to the individual, though). You guys are getting in to dangerous thinking territory. Why is it that something just always happens to thwart your attempts?
Sounds like you've got 2 results
5:15 and 5:29. Treat this girl like a 5:20 girl, because that's what she is. We live in a real world of real results. Theory explains and speculates, but the practical applications of results rule the day.
Like another poster stated, with the time trial, make it a bi weekly thing of 1200 meters. First TT, 83s and SCAFFOLD into it over the next TTs.
I appreciate you taking the time to offer your thoughts, but I think you are off base with your "admonishment." My coaching experience has been with boys and I've had a fair amount of success in a total of 3 years of coaching. (5 individual state titles, 2 sub 420 boys, 1 sub 920) There are a lot of great coaches/runners on LR and thus I decided it would be helpful to get some others thoughts since this is the first time I've coached girls. There are obviously some differences between coaching boys and girls and several coaches have made useful contributions to this thread. I can't imagine why you would think its a bad move to discuss training with others.
I assume you didn't read the entire thread, but we were doing lot of strength related training during XC. (weekly 4-5 mile tempo and 11 mile long run) We shifted gears to mile training directly from XC and the first 3 weeks of this 6 week build up still included tempo work and long runs.
I really don't understand the basis for your idea of a 1200 TT at 83 second pace. That would be a complete waste of time based on her workouts and the goal of trying to do something to garner attention from college coaches before signing day. Bi-weekly TTs would also be a terrible idea and as I stated previously, this will be her last week of training in this build up. She needs a break and thus we will shut things down after the 1600 TT this friday.
to summarize, "thanks for your input but not really".
well, if you want everyone to just kiss your butt all day, why didn't you just ask us to do that? Have fun running your girl into the ground!
Coach, thanks for keeping us informed. I've enjoyed reading the thread and keeping up with your progress.
Earlier I advised against a time trial. You won't be surprised then to hear that I don't understand your plans for another one. I'm especially uncomfortable with the video taping idea. I just don't get it. Is your goal to show coaches that she's a practice animal, but can't put it together when it counts? I'd suggest either finding another racing opportunity, or start prepping for spring.
Keep in mind that you've given enough information here that your girl's identity will likely not be a secret to inquisitive readers, including potential college coaches. If that time trial does not go well, people will know.
Good luck to you both.
During XC, was your girl doing any form of anaerobic conditioning work? Being aerobically fit, does not always translate into running fast, especially in events where you are running well over your lactate threshhold.
There is a fair bit of anaerobic energy expenditure in the mile, and I know that many LetsRunners may not agree but its the truth, sorry to break it to you all.
Working on a little bit of anaerobic conditioning stuff at or above race pace earlier in the year would've probably gone a long way to making her race pace feel real comfortable.
Coach K wrote:
Coach, thanks for keeping us informed. I've enjoyed reading the thread and keeping up with your progress.
Earlier I advised against a time trial. You won't be surprised then to hear that I don't understand your plans for another one. I'm especially uncomfortable with the video taping idea. I just don't get it. Is your goal to show coaches that she's a practice animal, but can't put it together when it counts? I'd suggest either finding another racing opportunity, or start prepping for spring.
Keep in mind that you've given enough information here that your girl's identity will likely not be a secret to inquisitive readers, including potential college coaches. If that time trial does not go well, people will know.
Good luck to you both.
I really appreciate your input. Unfortunately, we don't have another opportunity to race so its either a TT or shut it down and get ready for spring. In the spring, most schools will have already given out all of their money. I don't think we have anything to lose by running another TT so that coaches have something else to consider. If the TT goes poorly, she still has the same options she had coming into this build up. If it goes well, she might have a couple of other options. Given that we only had 1 opportunity to race, I would hope that most college coaches would understand why the TTs were necessary. In regards to why we would film it, its completely pointless for recruiting purposes if we don't so that's my rationale.
LOL11 wrote:
During XC, was your girl doing any form of anaerobic conditioning work? Being aerobically fit, does not always translate into running fast, especially in events where you are running well over your lactate threshhold.
There is a fair bit of anaerobic energy expenditure in the mile, and I know that many LetsRunners may not agree but its the truth, sorry to break it to you all.
Working on a little bit of anaerobic conditioning stuff at or above race pace earlier in the year would've probably gone a long way to making her race pace feel real comfortable.
Yeah, we definitely incorporated some anaerobic and leg speed work during the latter half of the XC season. I agree with you regarding that it would have helped if we had more time to do more of that type of work before trying to run a fast 1600 though. We only had 6 weeks for the build up to this race so I tried to incorporate as much as we could at 800 pace or faster while still doing the necessary amount of race pace and strength work.
Thanks a lot for taking the time to share your thoughts.