Who is 'oldsub4' from the sub 150 800m thread?

Leftrightrepeat wrote:

Oldsub4,

Do you still feel that you were in the sharpening phase for too long? In your opinion what is the ideal length? Also, would you still cut out the tempo run with 6 weeks to go for both 800 and 1500 runners?

Sharpening phase was 4-6 weeks, where you are already doing some racing. Key is to start racing still dull and just finishing your tempo work....maybe a 2 miler during the sharpening phase for maintainence but I would cut it out since it works against the hard speed endurance work. Even 1500m guys need to cut out the longer stuff during peak season ...at that point you are extracting from your base, and you don't want to get injured or breakdown with the quality work

Sprint coach learning distance wrote:

Earlier in the thread you mentioned that the most important things are to maximize LT and AT Thresholds. What exactly is the difference between the two? Would you mind lending an example of a workout for each?

Thanks!

These are my definitions. First is Aerobic threshold. This is how fast you can go solely on your aerobic system before you begin to use your anaerobic system that produces lactate. This is accomplished primarily with a steady steeping dose of regular mileage done at an easy pace consistently throughout the year. Second is lactate threshold, which is how fast you can run at a level where your body is able to metabolize the lactate at the same pace that it is being produced--ie the balance point of your anaerobic system before you start to accumulate lactic acid and the monkey jumps on your back in the race. This is done with tempo runs and with longer repeated intervals. In an 800m you get to your lt fairly quickly, and need to be using a good deal of aerobic power to produce 52second 400m pace....with about 150m to go you can run into your lactate tolerance level and end up with your last few strides staggering across the line as you lock up...but you need to get to 650m in the race in one piece. One thing I tell every high school 800m runner I talk to (yet we still all learn the hard way) is " no all out moves before 150m" -- that doesn't mean there isn't some gear shifting at 300m to go in a tactical race, but you can't make that flat out burst without coming up short and slowing dramatically near the finish line and risk getting nailed in the last 10m....witness KD in the 2008 OT forced to hold off a rush on his outside on the backstretch and he was toast with 60m left costing him his place on the team....easier said than done but reacting to an outside rush at 200m with a matching push instead of a flat out burst is a next level thing to master. This is a ramble, hope this makes sense

bump

Oldsub4, Were there any workouts that you did to work on your finishing kick ? After my first few races this season I feel stronger than ever aerobically and can hold pace but can't seem to really pour it on in the the last lap.

Bob,

Is it true you came up with the name enclave? Would love to hear some stories of what it was like training with that group back in the day..

Leftrightrepeat wrote:

Oldsub4, Were there any workouts that you did to work on your finishing kick ? After my first few races this season I feel stronger than ever aerobically and can hold pace but can't seem to really pour it on in the the last lap.

If you find that you are fit but just not finding the gear change, try a session of 3x800m with 800jog in between. Run at varying speeds during the 800m....I would go 26 for the first 200m, then run a 75 sec 400m then try to run 26-27 for the last 200m. The hardest part is not recovering much and having to speed up again at 200m tired.

Mr.E box wrote:

Bob,

Is it true you came up with the name enclave? Would love to hear some stories of what it was like training with that group back in the day..

I did come up with the Enclave but stole it from Frank Shorter. I lived in Boulder for a summer in college and we ran a few times and he was describing his training group in Gainesville in the early 70s when he was going to Law School.

There were just some incredibly talented runners there those years, but we hadnt yet found the medical support, PT regimes, etc to stay healthy as much as folks are today--that is the big difference. I bounced out because of injury, Rich Kenah missed 1992-1995, Trautmann's career was cut really short by a foot injury.

Trautmann doesnt get enough credit -- he was the real deal and set the bar for how hard we had to work. The run he had in 1991-1992 (never lost outdoors to anyone in the US) and was just starting to get his PRs down (13:19 by himself in April, 7:41 3k on a gimpy foot already that summer in 1992). Huge final kick and tons of speed -- he was on the WR DMR in 1987 as a true Freshman running the lead off 1200m leg. He was a guy that could close in 53 and run with the Africans had he stayed healthy. Hats off the Bob Kennedy for running the times and competing well in the mid 90s but pound for pound Traut had more talent. Turf toe ended him btw.

Dont know why i found this post but just did. First of all, Wejo gave me back my handle which was awesome. Secondly, to answer about my kids, my oldest inheriteded pure speed, became a sprinter and football player, ran a 4.47 40 yard dash and is now a Div 1-aa football recruited athlete.

My middle son is a near carbon copy of me but with better body mechanics....it is just awesome to see. He is 15, 6'4, 150 ... just ran 2:01 for 800m a couple weeks ago and will get 1:59 this season (my best at 15 was 2:03). He has an excellent HS coach and I dont really meddle that much. but he understand that the secret is there is no secret.

Youngest son 10....just ran 5k around 7 min pace with no training.....he has the natural stride and might be the one...my wife and I are holding our breathe until he is in HS and can start training. will occassionally jump into a 3 mile run with her and be talking comfortable. Wow.

AT and LT thresholds...AT is aerobic threshold...it is how fast you can run if you were just using oxygen. Lots of comfortable conversation pace distance work, core work, etc to increase your power at this energy system. Total confortable-----most common training mistake I see even to this day is folks trying to run this work too fast. The best runners I know run 7-30 pace with a few exceptions....For woman I know several 14:45 5k runners who run their easy distance at 8-8:30 pace

Lactate threshold is how fast you can go where your body can just euqlly dissolve the by-products of the anaerobic system at the same pace that you are producing them...ie sustainable. I describe this sensation to younger runners as "lungs burning, legs clear"

Last piece of the puzzle is anaerobic tolerance -- this is an endocrine system and is a short term training response -- ie the peak, so you have to time it.....reason why is doesnt take that much speed work to stimulate.

If you don't mind my asking, how fast was your wife?

I'm more of a strength than a speed 800 runner, and I built my mileage and had a strong base but had a really had a poor season. Do you see anything I should do different in the training I was doing during my outdoor season?

A typical week of training for me looks like:

Sun: 12 mile long run

Mon: 3 mile warm up, 6x70m strides, 3 mile cool down

Tue: Intervals: 500, 1min rest, 300, 6min rest, 400.

Wed: 6-7mile easy

Thu: Intervals: 400, 200 jog, 300, 200 jog, 200, 200 jog

Fri: Pre race: 2 mile warm up, 3x200 at 28, 2 mile cool down

Sat: Race