What did it take for YOU to break 2:30 marathon?

I used to run 10k-1/2 marathons, but not taper for them. I'd usually plan to do a long cool down or a second run that day too. Knowing that I hadn't tapered usually kept my effort in the right range.

There were a couple years when I did sometimes try to do long tempos on my own - like 10 miles at marathon goal pace. I rarely succeeded in those workouts. I remember an interview with Frank Shorter in which he said that he couldn't wake up in the morning and run even 7 miles at five minute pace - he needed the stimulus of being in a race.

Thinking about this, I realize that twenty years ago it was relatively easy to find a 10 mile race within an hour drive just about every weekend. Now, it seems that every race is either a 5k or a marathon.

Too, one of the critical workouts I did was an adaptation of something Bordin did: I ran 40k at 5 min/km then 10 k at 3:30 (Bordin supposedly did 4 min/km and 3). I learned what race pace felt like when my legs were pretty tired. It also taught me to concentrate after running for that period of time. During the three months before my PR I did this workout three times.

a workout I used to do before marathons (usually just once) was repeat 800s. I would do 12-20 repeats, but do them anywhere from 2:35-2:45 pace, and just jog 200 meters between each rep. That was another good workout for getting me under 2:30.

It seemed easy, but yet was at a pace faster than I was shooting for in order to break 2:30

TLW wrote:

8 miles at half marathon pace is not a tempo, that's a race. Really dumb workout.

8 miles at hmp is PRECISELY a tempo.

If running 8 miles at hmp is a race to you, then there's no way in hell you can run 13.1 miles at hmp.

I'm not sure how awful you are at math, but if I need to break that down a little more so that you can understand I'll give it a shot.

Try Sub 2:20 wrote:

1 sub 230 in 1 try wrote:

Enough talent to run 4:10 for the mile, lots of banked miles from previous running endeavors over the last 15 years, 4-5 month buildup with a stretch of 10 weeks averaging 70-75 mpw, a long run each week including 6 runs of 20+, a tempo run most weeks, no cross training.

Enough talent to run 4:10 for the mile to break 2:30 in the marathon? Is this a typo? I could not come anywhere near a 4:10 right now (possibly ever) and I could go out and break 2:30 without too much concern. Granted, I am not a speed guy, but still, you DEFINITELY DO NOT NEED 4:10 mile talent to be a sub 2:30 marathoner. I'm not going to look up the Daniels or McMillian conversions, but I'm sure they'll back me up and then some on this one.

Read the topic. "What did it take for YOU to break 2:30 marathon?". Obviously the guy who answered was talking about his own personal situation and not generalizing. That's how I read that...

My half pace is 5:05, so a tempo for me would be 8 miles in 40:40? Sorry, that's not a tempo anymore. 5:15 pace is a tempo effort.

Malmo mentioned this before, but if you can run your half marathon pace for that long, your half marathon time sucks.

Learn to train correctly.

Are you serious? wrote:

My half pace is 5:05, so a tempo for me would be 8 miles in 40:40? Sorry, that's not a tempo anymore. 5:15 pace is a tempo effort.

Malmo mentioned this before, but if you can run your half marathon pace for that long, your half marathon time sucks.

Learn to train correctly.

That's not a tempo, so what is it?

You want to define a tempo as something between half and marathon pace, then fine. I won't because it's not what I'm talking about.

What you're not saying is that 8 miles in 40:40 is a race effort though, which is what I was responding to.

Yeah, it's a hard workout. Yeah, you take it easy a few days before and after.

But if you can't run 8 miles at hmp in training without 'racing it' then there'll be hell to pay when you try to run 13.1.

Are you serious? wrote:

Learn to train correctly.

oh, and uh... go look up some of the stuff Canova says about 10-20k runs at 90% of 5k pace (~ 5:05 hmp if you're a 14:30ish runner) before telling ME to learn to train correctly.

Maybe you just train like a wimp, too.

I started running in 2004 and ran 4:19 with very little prep. The following year I trained to a runner's world 'sub 3' schedule and hit 3:13. The same year I tweaked (increased) the training and ran 2:58.

By 2006 I started training 'seriously' and 2:44 followed that Spring.

The following year I tried 100++ mile weeks and kept improving and thought I had a good shot at sub 2:30. I faded to 2:34 (5km = 15:34)

The following year my training was more like 60-70mpw with the 3 weeks prior to taper in the low 100s. I faded after 22M and got a low 2:31. (5km = 15:11)

I skipped the following spring marathons and concentrated on the summer track season. My fitness was poor in May (scraped under 34mins for 10km road) but after 8 weeks of consistent training I ran PBs at steeplechase, 10,000m (31:50) and 5000m (14:59). In August, a little before the 5000m race I decided to enter a fall marathon. Following the 5km I had 6 weeks to train - 4 hard weeks (90mpw), one medium week (70) and one to taper. Despite only 3 'long' runs (many more were in the 15-17 range) I ran solidly to 35km in 2:02:46 and held it together for a 2:28.

For me it was year on year (4 years of proper training).

The key training sessions were all fairly marathon specific. One I grew to love was heading to the track at a quiet time and running lap after lap in 84s or thereabouts. I'd typically build up to 32 - 36 laps.

The second involved hitting my local (flat) park and maintaining ~5:45 pace for 8 - 12 miles. This was on gravel and grass so effort wise was only marginally easier than the track work.

My times from 1500 - marathon stack up evenly on the 'tables', yet I feel my 5000m shows potential for about 2:24 rather than 2:28. The lure of netting a sub 2:30 was key and my short build-up not long enough to do much better.

Someone asked about going out slow.

I ran 1:14:35 and 1:13:58. A slight negative split. But the course was probably faster in the second half. Then again, I slowed in the last 2 miles so I was running from 13 to 24 at legit negative split pace.

What I meant by going out slow is really more that I went out slow in the first mile, which I think was around 5:50. That kept me away from the other people who were going out too fast. Noticing that I was out slow I picked it up and got onto a good tempo, which still felt slow, as it should early in a marathon. I caught the group that went out at my goal pace by the 3rd or 4th mile.

I didn't push hard on a single step until after at least 16 miles. Just steady tempo up to that point.

HRM...... wrote:

What did it take for YOU to break 2:30 marathon?

miles/week?

years training?

non-running training?

Training style?

etc.?

Did you put in years of work and still weren't able to do it?

Here is my monthly milage from Feb 1/82 when I weighed 205. Started running to lose weight. No athletic background.

f-110

m-133

a-105-1st 10km-40:27

m-189

j-150.5-2nd 10km-37:19

j-193.5-3rd 10km-36:19

a-312-4th 10km-36:01

s-291-5th 10km-34:59

o-251-1st marathon-2:45:59 on oct 2-then stopped going 20 on Sundays so the mileage dropped-6th 10km-34:19

n-290-7th 10km down to 33:53

d-244-short injury

j-291

f-304

m-335

a-308-10km-33:20-biggest week-102 miles-73:49 half-got a coach-says I can go 2:25-started doing more regulated workouts

m-345-32:59 10km

j-343

j-386 and started back to the 20+milers-31:56 10km

a-426-31:36 10 km

s-409

o-400-2:25:41 at NY-21 months off the couch

categorically wrote:

I didn't push hard on a single step until after at least 16 miles. Just steady tempo up to that point.

my recommendation as well. i love negative splitting marathons. i think thats the way to do it. enjoy the first half then get down to business.

broke 2:30 at boston (2:28:30)

1st half- 1:14:58

2nd half- 1:13:36

took off in the newton hills and murdered it on beacon street. by doing negative splits, youre passing loads of people, which does wonders for you mentally

its hard to focus for a whole marathon. thats why i dont. turn it into a half marathon with a 13.1 warmup. i sight see and high five people until halfway. its a lot easier to run when youre enjoying yourself

reincarnation

4th option wrote:

There's another one wrote:

Why do so many idiots on Letsrun make stupid statements like this? Options:

1. You don't know what the word "slow" means.

2. You have a negative self-image and no matter what you do you think you suck.

3. You're an arrogant pr!ck who wants to insult the greatest number of people possible.

4. You are vain and want people to say "oh man, you think 15:15 is slow!? I could never run that fast. You're not slow. You're so fast, dude!"

5. Your PR is really 19:55

yeah, you're a wimp wrote:

8 miles at hmp is PRECISELY a tempo.

If running 8 miles at hmp is a race to you, then there's no way in hell you can run 13.1 miles at hmp.

I'm not sure how awful you are at math, but if I need to break that down a little more so that you can understand I'll give it a shot.

i feel that hmp is the perfect tempo pace, its hard but i feel like if it was a race i could go a bit faster. as i'm getting more serious about running i'm kind of conflicted as to how fast i should be running. at what point does training become racing? sorry to go off topic as this thread is on point.

The 'yeah, you're a wimp' is an idiot.

I could run 5:05 pace for 8 miles in training. I ran 1:06:24 for a half and never averaged faster than 5:15 for tempos in the build up before though.

The point of a tempo run isn't to run 95% and have to take 3 days easy after to recover from it.

Tempo runs are comfortably hard runs, not time trials at 90% effort.

I get the impression a lot of you that agreeing don't average faster than 5:20 pace for half marathons.

Training is not about who is the toughest or less wimpy. It's about training smart, and running sessions at the correct pace to get the desired benefit.

Also you sound like a high school kid by saying people train like wimps.

There are two types of runners. Those who train to race and those who leave their races in training. You sound like the latter.

Are you serious? wrote:

The 'yeah, you're a wimp' is an idiot.

I could run 5:05 pace for 8 miles in training. I ran 1:06:24 for a half and never averaged faster than 5:15 for tempos in the build up before though.

The point of a tempo run isn't to run 95% and have to take 3 days easy after to recover from it.

Tempo runs are comfortably hard runs, not time trials at 90% effort.

I get the impression a lot of you that agreeing don't average faster than 5:20 pace for half marathons.

Training is not about who is the toughest or less wimpy. It's about training smart, and running sessions at the correct pace to get the desired benefit.

I could care less what your definition of tempo is. It's not the one I'm using. If that's your sole contention, then whatever. It matters not.

Guess you didn't read that Canova stuff, eh? Oh well, your loss.

Are you serious? wrote:

Also you sound like a high school kid by saying people train like wimps.

There are two types of runners. Those who train to race and those who leave their races in training. You sound like the latter.

The handle is a direct response to a question concerning whether or not the writer was a wimp. It's a bit tongue-in-cheek and wasn't my initiative. But if you have to make a federal case about it in an attempt to somehow gain some ground on this slippery slope you're sliding down, then good luck.

I may sound like the latter to you but my results say a lot differently. The results of Merga say differently. Results of Kiplagat say differently. The results of a lot of famous, fast people say differently.

But that doesn't matter because it runs contrary to what you think you know. Again, your loss.

Merga is a high-mileage runner.