........PSAC.......

But we don't have the academics that the D3 schools can offer, So when it came time for Smarty McSmarty to choose between D3 Edinboro and D3 MIT we would lose out every time. Thanks for proving my point. The PSAC would be in a worse situation then we are now if we went D3. Now we at least get the athletic kids that aren't quite D1 talent and aren't MIT smart. If we switched we would lose out on that entire niche of runners.

Nobody gives a f*ck about this D2 v. D3 argument.

[quote]psac wrote:

"Not 1 team in PSAC's would be in the top 5 at D III Nationals. If you combined all the PSAC schools you still would not win the title at NCAA's. Now don't tell me if the conference went to D III "it would ruin the conference as a whole." [quote]

With an average team this year Edinboro would have been top 3. Last year's Ship or Haven team would have won either of the last 2 year's. These teams arent great but they are better than almost every DIII school.

I like this discussion on DIII versus DII.

Most of the state schools in NY are DIII. As are most of the NJ state schools and some in Maryland as well. Somehow academically they are similar to the PSAC schools and they do fine in DIII.

The PSAC essentially has always been in the DIII mode anyway. Take a look at scholarships given in the PSAC relative to the rest of DII. I think Ship men lead the way with 3 full rides (around 45k per year). Next is Edinboro and LHU with 2 full (30 K ish). Look at WCU, Ville and Bloom (less than 8k per year in scholarship) Then look at Grand Valley, Adams and Western (they all have at least 6-7 fulls...Grand Valley is supposedly fully funded).

I agree that you probably would lose some of the high end guys if we were DIII but then again if they wanted to be a teacher or something maybe not. I know with our team that our top woman and man were both walk on athletes. They get limited scholarship now but that wasn't what brought them to the Ville in the first place.

I would suspect that the eastern PSAC schools might benefit from being DIII competitively while schools that depend on athletics to drive enrollment might suffer quite a bit going DIII.

This is the most interesting topic I have seen on this thread in awhile. Keep it up.

psac wrote:

With an average team this year Edinboro would have been top 3. Last year's Ship or Haven team would have won either of the last 2 year's. These teams arent great but they are better than almost every DIII school.

If you take away the guys who are on athletic scholarship they would not be in the top 3. Chances are not even in the top 10.

It is not fair to compare D II if you have athletes on athletic scholarship with a D III program. To say that a team would be top 3 is misleading at best.

Obviously PSAC does not give out much money and is basically a D III conference anyway.

I think the PSAC should break up and some schools go DIII and some DI. Then the schools that are working on very little athletic scholarship money could get the same recruits but they would be more competitive. Schools like Shippensburg could make track and cross country a premier program like Iona and possibly compete pretty well after 4 or 5 years of good recruiting. Slippery Rock or Cal U of Pa could also do well going DI. It would break up the conference but sometimes change is for the better.

I think if more schools like Ship began to move up to D3, then D2 could eventually start to diminish.

It already seems that year after year there are always the same schools at the top of the podium. It's almost like the PSAC. Ship, Lock, Ed always seem to have the best distance guys. Every now and then there will be an individual from a smaller school in the mix.

I guess my point is, with certain schools moving up to D1, I think we'd eventually have more schools move down to D3 instead of more schools moving up to D2.

The PSAC would lose schools to D1, and I could picture a new conference forming that combined more of the D3 schools in PA, or joining already established conferences like Landmark or whatever Susquehanna is in.

I like the underdog, but unfortunately, most sports are powered by a few powerhouse dynasty type teams.

On a weird side note, I wish there was time in the season to race more duel or tri meets. I know it wouldn't work with training and all, but I think it'd be fun to watch.

I may be mistaken, but isn't Edinboro's wrestling program D1? If so, then what is really the difference between being a D1 or D2 school? Is it that the D1 program is more funded than it's D2 counterpart, or is it strictly to be in more competitive conferences or something like that?

PSAC Alumni Update!

Eric Broadbent who competed for West Chester University won the USA Indoor Heptathalon Championships. Scoring 5906 pts! Congrats Eric, its been fun to watch you improve over the years. The rest of the PSAC should look at him as an example to keep working post collegiately because big things can happen if you have a few years of consistent training. I guess that next goal on his list should be the Olympic Trials?

http://decathlonusa.typepad.com/files/volumexxxviinumber13march22012.pdf

Holy Cow wrote:

\but where was this effort at PSACs last weekend?

It was obviously lost in the slow paced races led by people afraid to race.

GrizzlyLongCut wrote:

It was obviously lost in the slow paced races led by people afraid to race.

So wait, you're saying a conference championship race was tactical and slow?!? Who's ever heard of that crazy concept???

Obviously, the people in the fast heat were in that "championship" mindset and failed to keep in mind that the kids in the heat behind them dropped some pretty great times. I know if I was in that fast heat this year, I would have put it out on the track. The time that Kehl won the slower heat with in the 800 that ended up winning the meet was on par with the average winning time for that race at PSACs.

I'd think that they'd still ride that championship mentality, but seeing someone run 1:54.x in front of them should have kicked them into gear, especially considering how fast and experienced the field in the fast heat was.

The mens mile was a tough race to be in. Ship dominated the performance list and they already had their national qualifying times so they weren't going to set the pace. Everybody didn't want to go out and blow up so it turned into a complete field waiting to see what Beegle, Gillette, and Schelander was going to do. It wasn't suprising to see how it turned out.

However the mens 800 was pretty pathetic. With a group that big going out in 61 there wasn't much they were going to do to win the race. How they weren't told that the prevous heat went 1:54 is beyond me. Also since the track is not 200 meters could be the reason why they allowed the pace to lack so severely. It almost happened in the mens mile but they were able to bring it home in 1:58/59 to secure the win. But once the 61 was hit they needed to drop a 53 and it just wasn't going to happen. It was a sad/frustrating race to watch but thats the luck of the draw. Tom Kehl earned his win and it wouldn't have suprised me if he would have went on to win the race if he would have been in the fast heat.

I ran at a school near Tom Kehl in H.S. and I think he split like 1:51 in a 4x800 -- so 1:56 might be his open p.r. but he's blazing fast

Tonight there is some action from the PSAC at the D2 meet that should be pretty exciting.

The DMR is there with Ship's women and men running. Bryan Beegle is running the Mile, Amanda Radabaugh is in the 800, and Herman Kirkland is in the 60 dash and the LJ.

Mansfield's Justin Johnson is running the 400

Chehney's Simone Carter is in the 60

Slippery Rock has Julia Cain in the PV

Lock Haven's Weight thrower placed 11th with a toss of 60'3"

Good Luck to all of those competing today! Make the PSAC proud.

I feel all of those listed above competing could go AA and Ship's Mens DMR and Kirkland have a chance to win.

Beegle bombed in the mile.

Beegle had the misfortune of getting into the first heat of the mile that went out in 75, 2:22, 3:28 and a 56 sec last lap wasnt enough to get it done yesterday. Congrats on two PSAC all-time records in the mile and DMR however and good luck outdoors.

Herman Kirkland broke the all-time PSAC record in the prelims of the 60 going 6.79. Hopefully he has a chance at a top 3 podium finish!

Congrats to Edinboro and Ships long jumpers for going All-American.

Plus Ships men and women did well with a 3rd and 6th placing respectively.

Can the PSAC get 4 AA certificates in the womens 5k tonight? Anderson, Edwards, Spratford, and Crawford are all capable for sure.

What happened to Brenae?

Brenae hurt her ankle. Very upsetting and sad thing to happen right at NCAA's. I'll give her credit for trying to go anyway.