........PSAC.......

We should still be represented well, that DMR from Ship should place high, Beegle in the mile should place high, as well as Justen Johnson from Mansfield. Could be worse.

ok so, how is it that a program like mansfield with such a small team always seems to have someone going to nationals (and doing well too) when other larger teams do not?

quasi wrote:

We should still be represented well, that DMR from Ship should place high, Beegle in the mile should place high, as well as Justen Johnson from Mansfield. Could be worse.

They have coaches that know what they are doing. They obviously can't get the kids Ship, Haven and the Boro do because of their size but when they do get kids they run them to PR's.

And who does Ship get that is so great? Beegle was a 9:1x guy and Gillete was a 9:2x's guy. If anyone seems to pick up studs it is Edinboro and Haven.

Take those times into consideration when looking at the Mansfield guys...look at their HS PR's, definitely not at the caliber Ship's guys were. That's besides the point, the point is they have good coaching and it shows year in and year out.

Wrong? wrote:

And who does Ship get that is so great? Beegle was a 9:1x guy and Gillete was a 9:2x's guy. If anyone seems to pick up studs it is Edinboro and Haven.

You are kidding right? 9:10 and 9:20 are two of the better incoming times ever. Really, guys from Ship should not make out like they are the poor kids on the block. Sorry but they are good, well coached and race and train hard but they ARE the RICH kids on the block.

Tom Kehl-4:12

Scott Armstrong- 9:19

plus the sloom of guys they get that run 1:56-7 in the 800 and 4:20's in the mile.

yea i think that they r the rich kids on the block

Its not all about the money that brings people to Edinboro, Lock Haven, Slippery Rock and Shippensburg. Its largely the tradition of success that all of four of these teams have had over the years. All of these programs have great coaching staffs that are capable of developing both individuals and teams.

I know of specific circumstances where athletes were offered nearly full rides at other conference schools but chose one of the big four as a walk on.

The big four are not buying their athletes with money, but rather with traditions of success, training partners, individual development and the possibility of team championships.

Another factor to consider is the educational aspect of the conference. There is a proven correlation between academics and athletics - that alone proves that cheny, west chester, mansfield will likely never be good as a team.

Shippensburg Teams HS PR's 800, 1600, 3200.

Ranked on Mile PR's

Tom Kehl (FR).......1:56.3, 4:11.02, 9:28 (Placed at PSACS)

Ryan Spangler (FR)..1:56.3, 4:16 (Placed at PSACS

Bryan Beegle (Grad).4:18.24, 9:15.83 (Placed at PSACS)

Matt Gillette (JR)..4:20, 9:19 (Placed at PSACS)

Scott Armstrong (JR)4:20, 9:19

Matt Ahearn (FR)....1:56.37, 4:22.2

Brian Quintrell (JR)1:55.54, 4:26.07

Matt Bee (FR).......1:56.3, 4:27.7 (Placed at PSACS)

Peter Gelston (FR)..4:29, 9:41

Jake Jones (SO).....1:56, 4:33

Stephen Shelander (SR)4:34.39, 9:31.71 (Placed at PSACS)

Greg Ahlswede (SR)..4:34,97 9:48.72

Bernard England (FR).1:56.6, 4:36 (Placed at PSACS)

Logan Wright (JR)....4:43, 10:02

Ethan Pealer (JR)....4:44, 9:57.6

Jake Sitler (Grad)...4:48, 10:17 (Placed at PSACS)

Eric Evans (SR)......4:53.16, 10:04.00 (Placed at PSACS)

Kris Kroeger (SR)....10:00.23

Dustin Adams (SR)....10:08.90

Wade Miller (SR).....10:28.54 (Placed at PSACS)

Ship has has 4 sub 9:20 guys

.............3 Sub 4:20 guys

Ok, who actually takes the time to compile a list of incoming freshman times? are you a coach, or someone who has WAY too much time of their hands?

i'll agree with the statement of tradition to the powerhouses. lock, ed, and ship are the powerhouses. rock, east aren't too far off. after that, it really drops.

who cares about that, though? 10 years from now, will there even be a psac? will more schools join the psac, or will the psac go defunct?

i just hope it doesn't turn into a conference that is made up of more new schools than the original psac. do you think the psac would ever drop down to dIII?

i just hope it doesn't turn into a conference that is made up of more new schools than the original psac. do you think the psac would ever drop down to dIII?[/quote]

I hear that the conference is adding more teams soon. As for dropping down to D III I think it would be a good idea. At least we could be competitive. Our present teams would not win an NCAA team title but our top teams could be in the top 5-10 consistently. However, if we had to give up scholarships then maybe not.

If the PSAC went D3 it would pretty much guarantee that we would lose mostly all of our top recruits. D3 doesn't offer athletic scholarships so there would be no way the Scott Anderson's, Bryan Beegles, or Nick Hiltons would even look at the PSAC. If you ran 9:03 would you even consider going to a school without scholarship money? These guys are getting good offers to go to good regional D1 schools and scholarship money is one of the few things we can do to compete and keep some talent in the conference. If you look at some of the great teams the conference has had over the past few years from slippery rock, lock haven, or Ship there was a lot of good high school talent that continued to improve. Take away scholarship money and you would have a conference full of teams like Mansfield that lacks depth in all categories but does really well with what they are given. Instead of talking about going D3 we should be looking at more scholarship money or adding schools to the conference. Just adding Edinboro indoors could make the distance races a lot more competitive. The worst thing that could happen is for the teams to go D3

I think what you forget is that even though D3 doesn't offer athletic scholarships, they find tons of ways to give out money to basically make it seem like an athletic scholarship.

So, despite D3 not being able to give out athletic scholarships, some schools can hook you up in many other areas. I'm not saying all D3 schools can do this, but I do know people who have had close to full rides.

I don't think dropping down to d3 would be a terrible thing. If there are other reasons that going to a different division would be bad, I'll listen. If scholarship money is the only problem, then I don't believe it would be as bad as you think.

If the PSAC went D3 it would pretty much guarantee that we would lose mostly all of our top recruits. D3 doesn't offer athletic scholarships so there would be no way the Scott Anderson's, Bryan Beegles, or Nick Hiltons would even look at the PSAC. If you ran 9:03 would you even consider going to a school without scholarship money?

None of these guys would even be ranked in the top 4 for D III so why do you think they would not consider a D III program? Obviously they are not superior so I think they would consider going to D III. There are athletes there who have run faster than 9:03 in high school.

As for athletes getting full rides in D III it just means that they qualify for a lot of Pell or grants or are really smart and get academic aid. But they are probably getting that at a D II also since usually the academics are not as good as D III.

No one is going to confuse a Ship, SRU, Lock Haven or an Edin with a Swarthmore, MIT, Amherst, Williams, Haverford and so on.

None of these guys would even be ranked in the top 4 for D III so why do you think they would not consider a D III program? Obviously they are not superior so I think they would consider going to D III. There are athletes there who have run faster than 9:03 in high school.

Fun fact:

Nick Hilton would have been the top steepler in D3 last year and Beegle would be third in the mile right now. Our conference could clean up at a D3 national meet. A lot of people dream of going D1 all of there lives, some settle for D2 for different reasons, but nobody dreams of being the best D3 athlete. It would kill recruiting without a doubt. The PSAC does not have a strong academic background do that isn't even marketable. Pretty much if we went D3 it would ruin the conference as a whole.

Forgot one extra thing. Scott Anderson would have the best time in D3 as well. So out top 3 people last year would have been the best D3 athletes. Because its just part of the food chain. D3 sucks and gets recruits that suck

In other PSAC news, Mike Robinson of Mansfield ran a 1:52.35 800 at the IC4As today. A huge congrats to him on an awesome performance, but where was this effort at PSACs last weekend? Also....how is Mansfield able to race in the IC4As?

Holy Cow wrote:

In other PSAC news, Mike Robinson of Mansfield ran a 1:52.35 800 at the IC4As today. A huge congrats to him on an awesome performance, but where was this effort at PSACs last weekend? Also....how is Mansfield able to race in the IC4As?

I was wondering the same, I thought IC4As was for d1... Anyway, he would have been close into getting in to nationals with that time

The PSAC does not have a strong academic background do that isn't even marketable. Pretty much if we went D3 it would ruin the conference as a whole.[/quote]

Read that first sentence again - carefully. As I said, no one is going to confuse the PSAC schools with the top D III ones academically. Not 1 team in PSAC's would be in the top 5 at D III Nationals. If you combined all the PSAC schools you still would not win the title at NCAA's. Now don't tell me if the conference went to D III "it would ruin the conference as a whole."

No individual from PSAC would be ranked in the top 4 in D III. D III has very good athletes.