........PSAC.......

I like arm an hammers list much better. Like stated, Monroe cant run that many 10ks and expect to be fresh. Plus its cutting deep into his summer base, and even more so if he takes the kind of break he truly needs in extending his season. Haven does have the edge in experience.

I think boro will take it over haven, but only IF they can keep a healthy squad and if watts peaks his entire team at the right time. He seems to have a problem with that one.

Ship shows up when it counts! Unless they get some studs recruited then I think it may be towards the outs for them, especially if its true boyer is gone? They had their glory this year and yes they did pull another nats spot for the region, but graduating 4 guys from the top 7 leaves a lot of room for error.

Cal is returning a young squad led by dinzeo. Graduating one senior and picking up 3 transfers who will have an immediate impact if they can deal with a new coach. A solid team with a shot at nationals.

The rock, however a young team, I feel is out for now. It doesnt seem that they have the one or two guys who are the difference makers for them. More a of solid pack of guys, just not up in the ranks with the big guns, yet.

Top 4 teams:

1) Boro

2) Haven

3) Ship/Cal - tossup to who can show up that day

4) Rock

As for indiv:

I like the list, but toss out Rono, or at least not so high. I guess he ran a 224 marathon back in africa once, and was low 14s in the 5k. But he hasnt shown up here in america. And I hear he loves the unhealthy american cuisine like hamburgers. He's fast, but getting slower.

Bud Plaszenski, I dont know if he has the endurance to keep up with the top 15 this year. There is a solid core of young and old 10k guys this year and his 1500 speed will not make up for less endurance, even in the 8k.

The rest, its up for grabs in regards to finishing order for individuals. There will be many sneaking there way into that top 15 unexpectedly.

Dude my list wasn't that far off base compared to yours, even without the knowledge of some injuries and redshirts...I can agree with Boro being #1...with haven, i still think even though Monroe had a long season, he has plenty of time to rest and be ready for the post-season...I think Ship is still in a higher class than Cal, so i wouldn't put them in a tie...Cal is looking like 4th right now (but ready to catch Ship if they have a bad day), with SRU and ESU nippin on their heels + i still think Indiana has enough talent that if they are having a good day, they could be dangerous

Attention! Matt Gillette just came down with a season ending injury over the last few weeks and will not be running for ship till the spring. This is verified and true. I can't go into the details but this will really hurt Ship's chances of going to nationals.

its true. Gillette broke his coccyx at a Red Hot Chili Peppers concert this summer. he was crowd surfing during "Californication" and got dropped on a guardrail.

First weekend of races coming up here soon. Who will throw down the gauntlet for the remainder of the season???

GO WEST CHESTER!!!

Could any coach be more of a goof!

Which team had the most impressive race this weekend????

men's preview:

1) Haven- returning 7 of top 10 from last year's PSAC runner-up and regional title.

the strength: Monroe, Getz, Gainer, Zondlo, Miller project as the top 5. There is a history of developing at least one impact freshman to solidify the line-up.

the concern: Depth. Monroe had a long season, Miller is inconsistent at championship time; Gainer has never been counted on to score when it counts.

why number 1: 4 potential top 10 guys in miller, getz, monroe, zondlo... if 5 guys are on their game they are the team to beat.

2) Edinboro- Returning 9/10 from two 3rd place finishes

strength: led by anderson this is an experienced and hungry team that should be motivated by last year's near miss.

the concern: of the 9 returners only 3 were top 20 @ the PSAC meet, i think you have to score low to win this year (again) and i don't know if there are enough studs to keep the score under 45.

3) Shippensburg- return 3/10 from last year's PSAC title, regional runner up.

strength: Gillette and Schelander are two of the best in the conference and region, Evans was 29th and just ran his best season opener of the year (according to the ship website).

concern: who steps up to fill the void? last year's ship team posted one of the best national finishes of the decade for the PSAC, do they rebuild this year or are the pieces in place to reload behind a strong top 2?

4) Cal- 9/10 return from 6th @ PSAC last year.

strength: new talent, a strong front-runner in Dinzeo and a strong core of experienced runners.

concern: coach Caulfield's strength is long term development of runner's. The Gibson's need to improve as XC runners (they were average at St. Francis) if they make a jump this season, Cal will be a major factor.

5) East Stroud- 9/10 return from 5th place last year @ PSAC.

strength: returning 3 of the top 30 from last year and a nice pack of 4-7 returning.

concern: this team has struggled to take the step forward that is necessary to contend for a national spot. i don't think the back end is strong enough to move this team forward.

6) Slippery Rock- returning 7/10 from last year's 4th place finish.

strength: Arrigoni, Beegle, Elliot, Geddis were all top 50 at PSAC last year. this team was young and ran well at championship time.

concern: two of the runners lost were key pieces in the 4th place finish. no impact newcomers on the roster so they have to take a step forward with the same pieces as last year.

7) Mansfield- return all 10 from last year's PSAC squad.

strength: you bring back 10 runners and an all conference runner in Plaszenski. I think McNabb makes a step forward this year.

concern: only 3 of the returners were top 90 last year, this group needs an impact freshman or a breakout season to go forward.

8) Millersville- return 7/10 from the PSAC meet

strength: McBride is a stud and there is some talent on the roster. A low stick is a big advantage this far back in the standings.

concern: a lack of proven talent behind McBride. some of the talent on the roster has struggled since arriving on campus.

9) IUP- return 9/10 from last year's PSAC meet

strength: there is decent front-running in the group with costello as an all PSAC candidate. the 2-6 pack is capable of making a jump and looked better in track.

concern: IUP took a hit when kiptoo-rono elected not to return. this squad has now lost impact kenyans in back to back years. that is not good for any team.

10) kutztown- 8/10 returning

strength: this group just had their 'best opener in years' and it looked like fleming has taken a step forward. they should be hungry to repeat the success of their women

concern: only 3 of the returners cracked the top 100 at the conference meet last year. that is all the concern you need.

11) bloomsburg- 6/10 returning

strength- bobby furman has a chance at being an all conference runner. returners 2-5 could all move up 15-20 sports.

concern: returners 2-5 were all after 75th in the conference meet. this is the one ranking i have real trouble defending, i could see this team finishing closer to the 7-8 range.

12) West Chester- 5/10 returning

strength- freshman front runner in the first meet, 4 guys well grouped returning from last season's squad.

concern- well grouped from 69-89 is not something you look for in a team moving forward. i don't see any potential low sticks in the group.

13) gannon- 8/10 returning

strength- if the group that finished 96-105 moves forward, they could close the gap on the rest of the psac

concern- it's a long way to go to be competitive with the 12 teams above them.

14) mercy- 6/10 returning

strength- better top two returning than gannon, but not much depth to move them forward.

concern- see above

15) Cheyney- i was going to write a preview for cheyney. then i saw they had people disqualified at the conference meet last year, and canceled their meet on september 1st due to hurricane irene. then i couldn't bring myself to do it.

women's prediction tomorrow: it requires more of my attention to figure them out. ship first and then...

The only womens prediction needed is on what team can cook and clean the best.

I come back on this board for first time in about two years and the first post I see this insightful chauvinist comment. I'm so happy and couldn't agree more! P.S. Shizzy still sucks

PSAC women's ranking; cooking rankings to be released next month after I have taken the time to sample all the women of the conference have to offer.

1) Ship- 5 conference performers return

strength- the 5 they return are all top 20 performers. and one of them is pretty damn good. only team in the conference returning two all americans.

weakness- ummmm... they didn't beat GVSU at nationals last year?

2) Edinboro- 8 return

strength- return 5 strong and have added former foot locker runner Gibson to the fold. i think this team is a clear pre-season number 2.

concern- faltered at the regional meet last year, lost tina yi who has long been a standout in the PSAC

3) East Stroud- 10 return

strength- they bring back 5 of the top 50 returners in the conference. mascoli and fitzgerald are low sticks.

concern- the depth behind them leaves room for other teams to sneak in a 3-5 and steal the spot.

4) Millersville- 6 return

strength- anderson is a low stick, they return the 3rd best 5 runner in the conference.

concern, not much depth after the 5 that return. their hopes rest on 5 top notch races

5) Bloomsburg- 9 return

strength- looks like they may have added an impact freshman to an already deep and talented team. they look 6-7 deep with potential top 60 runners.

concern- where was meck in season opener? can the depth move forward enough to finish top 3?

6) Mansfield- 10 return

strength- the return of Edwards gives them a stud up front. the scordino's are top notch returners and their are some familiar (last) names on the roster as freshman.

concern- how low do the 2-5 go? 4 in the top 40 behind edwards might be enough to get them a top 3 finish.

7) Lock Haven- 8 return

strength- two potential low scorers with sick and lambert. sick was missed at the conference meet last year, and a nice group from 55-70.

concern- its a broken record. the #3 team in the conference will be the team that wins the battle at 3,4,5. lock haven can count themselves in that hunt.

8) Kutztown- 7 return

strength- two quality returners from the best team in school history. enough numbers behind them for someone to break out

concern- the losses they took were big. they lost 3 quality runners who were consistent championship performers. was last year an up year or the start of a quality tradition? not a strong opener.

9) Rock- 7 return

strength- one low stick returning and a few quality performers in the pack

concern- who is the 5 runner? hancox? she had a great track season. if they get an impact freshman or transfer, this team could also compete for a top 3 spot.

10)IUP- 8 return

strength- a solid group that is about 6 deep returning. the program seems to be taking a step forward

concern- no guaranteed low scorer, and a pack that is to far back to contend at the top level of the conference

11) Cal- 8 return

strength- a young team with some talent that under-performed last year. they have the chance to take a step forward

concern- too many teams return 4-6 runners ahead of Cal's #3 returner. it will be a great season if they can step into the top half of the conference.

12) West Chester- 8 return

strength- koutsouros is a low scorer and it looks like they added another decent runner in kathleen casey.

concern- most of the pack they have is too far back to make an impact and move this team forward.

13) Clarion- 9 return

strength- returning 9 gives this team plenty of room to grow.

concern- need to fill out the roster, grab a little more depth at the 3-7 spots

14) Gannon- 7 return

strength- a well grouped 3-5 could move up

concern- do they have a big enough roster to run 10 at the PSAC meet? being top 12 would be a big improvement.

15) mercyhurst- 5 return

strength- they should still beat cheyney

concern- lost a high end performer and their best runner by far, 4 of the 5 returners did not crack the top 115.

16) Cheyney- 5 finishers all at the back of the pack last year. expect the same

These rankings were incredibly difficult. i believe that Ship and Edinboro look relatively safe for the top 2 spots. But Edinboro didn't run well at regionals last year and an off performance brings them back to the pack. i fully believe teams 3-10 can all compete for that third spot if their season's go well. some teams will separate themselves as the season goes on, but i expect spots 3-7 to be less than 40 points apart at PSAC and regional.

weekend updates?

ESU men better then most think

ESU women not as good as most thought

Both better then SRU

I guess Matt Gillete is running. He ran a 19:22 6K....

Mansfield women look pretty legit. May give Edinboro and Ship a bit of competition.

ESU had about 5 guys at VCP at 26 or under. That is pretty darn good for that course.

Cal still hasn't opened up. I guess we will know more after next weekend.

Rumor is Cal isn't opening up til PSACs

there was something wrong with the VCP course at fordham. The runners were sent the wrong way or something and it ended up being about 300-400 meters short. sorry to rain on the ESU parade..

i was wondering about that. i figured there was no way two esu guys ran faster than don cabral of princeton...

Well maybe the ESU times were short. BUt they are still a better team than most think and better then SRU! Cause Koch RULES!