The mystery that is Martin Smith

To the poster complaining about not being able to use the track in Madison...TOUGH CRAP. Would Barry let you run strides on the football field when his team was practicing? Would it be ok if you went and played a game of H.O.R.S.E. at the Kohl Center while Bo and the team where practicing? HELL NO. Seriously...what the hell are you smoking? As a Badger Alum of the Martin era, I expected to get the track to ourselves to do our workouts. We had guys training for the NCAA's and Olympic trials. Why the hell would I want some dude who isn't on the team out there doing intervals and getting in the way. That track, and the rest of the athletic facilities are for UW athletes, not the public. The University does not HAVE to let you use the track dude. What gives you the right to decide who runs on the track? I doubt Jerry would let you "work" together with his guys when they are doing a workout.

Kicking your @$$ off the track had nothing to do with Martin, and that gate should be locked when it isn't being used by UW athletes. The cops would have drop kicked you out the gate if you would have refused to leave.

The real issue is not the coaches. It's liability. Plus, there are some laws on the books having to do with who pays for facilities. Groups that are allowed on the track have to prove they're insured for their workouts. I'm not sure, but at one time there were to be fees involved. The coaches are actually pretty supportive.

I've dealt with Smith (and Schumacher) in the past in the same way someone dealt with Schumacher - i.e. respectful conversation - and gotten the same results. Others, apparently haven't. I would suspect the time of year/season might have something to do with that.

Those are faulty analogies because track is just a different animal from football and basketball. By and large track coaches are not the caliber of Aholes that football and basketball coaches are either. It is common practice in Fayetteville, Palo Alto, and Eugene (pre Smith) to let alums and post collegiates on the track at the same time so long as they are respectful of the varsity practice. It only takes a modicum of respect and decency. The track is a big enough venue to accomodate quite a few people.

Locking up the facilities is a bunch of crap-all you have to do is post a run at your own peril warning.

I really wasn’t talking about Dobson, Gomez, Chapa, and Jesperson. They graduated high school when Stanford was on top of its game. Who wouldn’t choose the established top-notch Stanford program over up and coming Oregon at that time? Of course, Analiese wouldn’t be coached by Martin, anyway. I was talking about more recent male graduates who have been directly connected to Salazar.

Plus, I never said Salazar told anyone to stay away from Oregon. I said the perception was that he counseled kids to stay away. How can you blame anybody for having that perception? You must be very close to the situation if you can so emphatically state that Salazar did not influence Rupp, Eagon, and Vail to stay away from Oregon as long as Smith was there. And you must know AWall and McGrath very well to believe they did not quit Oregon at least in part due to Salazar’s influence.

Other things that add to my perception are that Scott Wall is now at Oregon, McGrath is talking about returning, and there is the likelihood that Rupp will be there in the fall. Furthermore, there is an article in the Portland Tribune quoting Salazar that he will be down in Eugene half the week if Rupp decides to attend UO. So, how can people not speculate that what has happened is part of a two year conspiracy to get Martin out of Eugene? Who benefits? Maybe the Oregon program will be better off in the long run, but it seems to me, right now, the ouster only benefits Salazar and his associates.

Maybe I’ll change my mind when and if the whole story comes out, but until then, this is my perception of the situation. I’m sure many others share the same viewpoint. So, tell us the whole story if you don’t want that perception to persist.

ramxc wrote:

The fact is that some kids chose Oregon. Others - some connected to Alberto and some not - chose to go elsewhere.

Dave, exactly what are those pills that McGrath and Rupp are downing by the handfull? My sources tell me it's the same adro shit that McGuire was eating only under a different brand name. What are you hiding, Mr Frank?

Flashmile wrote:

Those are faulty analogies because track is just a different animal from football and basketball. By and large track coaches are not the caliber of Aholes that football and basketball coaches are either. It is common practice in Fayetteville, Palo Alto, and Eugene (pre Smith) to let alums and post collegiates on the track at the same time so long as they are respectful of the varsity practice. It only takes a modicum of respect and decency. The track is a big enough venue to accomodate quite a few people.

Locking up the facilities is a bunch of crap-all you have to do is post a run at your own peril warning.

The facilities are operated by facilities people, not the coaches. The coaches reserve time to use the track. Other people can try and get it, but they have to show proof of insurance and often, pay a fee. I've seen some university tracks go for $900 a pop. As in, $900 EVERY TIME you want to use it, not $900 to use it every Tuesday from April to October.

Define "post collegiates" . 50 year old brokers trying to qualify for Boston? Beginners? Do they all get on? Differentiating on the basis of ability is hard to justify to administrators (or judges).

Posting a "own peril" warning doesn't keep you from getting sued. In some states, signing that health waiver still doesn't keep people from suing.

insurance and other issues aside regarding the track usage issue, the point that shouldn't be lost is that Martin has always been a prick. Yelling at people not on his team and behaving like a deranged lunatic at times and/or not having the common decency to treat other people with respect is where Martin has traditionally fallen short in his behavior.

dumbass. you think the football coach let wanna-bees like you on his football field whenever they felt like tossing the ball around? Or the basketball coach allow losers on his court? How is that any different than letting joggers on on the track? JOG on a high school track next time fool.

Does the UW getting any funing from taxpayers? If so, could any of that funding be distributed to athletics? If so, don't residents have a wincey little part of the track too?

Like someone else said, soooooooo many other college tracks are open for use to post collegiate runners and others. Not that unreasonable. Serious athletes get permission from the coach to workout (maybe at designated times) and public can jog in outer lanes at certain times. It's pretty easy, and pretty fair. Egoism just doesn't work in a world with more than 2 people.

The track is owned and funded by the University. As a post collegiate I didn't go anywhere near a track when the college teams were practicing simple as that. You can go to a high school track to do your intervals, there is no need to interrupt a college workout session. If I was coaching a college team and you were on my teams track I would politely ask you to leave...if you wouldn't leave I would start yelling at you. It gets really old having to do that 2-3 times a week for a coach to use the track that is there for their athletes. Martin lost his patience after a while and you would too if you had to deal with it all the time for 15 years. Joggers shouldn't be jogging on a track anyways...why the hell would you want to just go in circles jogging. Go run in the arb. or something for christ sakes!! There are tons of places to run in Madison.

As far as a comparison to the Kohl Center or Camp Randall it is right on. Both are owned and designed to be used for the athletes of the university.

You know damn well what is meant by post collegiate Idelaist. It's the people who are just out of school who still want to train and compete and most often get bent over by maniacal Aholes such as Martin Smith and overly anal campus police and grounds workers.

I know that hold harmless agreements don't hold up in court, but that shouldn't stop people from opening tracks to the public. So, have people pay a nominal fee and sign a useage contract-whatever you feel good about, running on a track just isn't a big liability issue.

A track coach doesn't own a track unless he bought it. Joggers are slow runners, they also like to know distance. Just like if you tried something you didn't know much about and wanted to measure your own success, regardless of how little that success is, measured against the worlds best.

Joggers, post collegiates and walkers can all use a track without affecting the college athletes and the wear on the track. Joggers and walkers (not during practice time) stay out of the inside lanes , post collegiates work out after college practice if it is too much for the college athletes to handle because there coach is a control freak who needs to have control over the entire track while he's there.

That's really what it boils down to, someone needing to feel the illusion of control in the world to give them a sense of self worth.

It is much more that than a necessity for a quality workout. Because the latter is being done all over the country at other great programs who integrate with Joe Public and the post collegiates.

Out.

There are signs posted at Hayward Field asking I(not demanding) that the public not be on the track from 2:30 to 5:30 daily because this is the time the track team practices. I have run on that track many times outside those hours. Nobody seems to mind, least of all Martin Smith.

That's true, if Smith would have tried to enforce those laws in Eugene, he would have been run right out of town.................I mean instantly.

"You gotta give Martin Smith credit," for droppin' track out of the only track town in this country. Yes he showed improvent of track statistics and numbers in comparison to the recent years prior to his arrival, but you couldn't convince Oregon track fans of that. Why, because they couldn't see it.

If you have a "track town" in the USA, you gotta keep that alive. Track is dead in this country already, Eugene is a phenomenon. If you've ever ran there at a big meet you'll know it. Smith let that go. The spirit and all that history began to fade at Hayward field. Unused seating portions were taken out. That is a SAD thing.

When I ran the High School Mile at the Prefontaine Classic meet (when it was run in the evening, the good way!!!!) there were over 10,000 people rythmically clapping for us. Energy like a lightning storm, people anxious to see big things happen, which they did.

That's where you want to go to have a meet. I didn't go to Oregon, but I sure wanted to. And I definately loved racing there.

"Martin Smith is a mystery." He sure is, it's a mystery to me why that fool didn't set up to have the biggest qualifying meets out there instead of Stanford. Hayward has a much better setting, the town would go nuts for a huge meet like that. I hope the new coaches will do it right.

Why weren't you talking about those guys? Because they don't fit your conspiracy theory? These are all Oregon high school products who did not attend the University of Oregon while Martin Smith was the coach; could it be that they simply liked another school/coach better without any outside influence? Could it be that others simply chose other schools as well?

Alec Wall and Mike McGrath didn't choose Stanford.

Again, it doesn't seem to fit your theory so you're conveniently throwing it out. If Alberto really were trying to "sabotage" Martin's team he'd certainly "counsel" Annaliese against going there.

So you're talking about Eagon, Rupp, Chapa, Wall, Wall, McGrath? I don't include Vail, as he only trained with the group for a portion of the winter during his junior year.

Of that group two CHOSE to go to Oregon, Alec Wall and Mike McGrath. Chapa was VERY close to going to Oregon - and, as you stated, Stanford certainly was a pretty good option; Alec Wall certainly could have been admitted to Stanford as well, and he CHOSE Oregon.

So now we're down to Rupp and Eagon.

Did Alberto advise Galen against going to U of O? That's certainly a possibility, probable in fact. Are you implying that Alberto should have told Galen to go to the U of O even if he didn't believe it would be in Galen's best interests? Alberto's first loyalty is to the kids he coaches, far and away above his loyalty to the U of O. He CARES about his kids. I'm a high school coach; should I tell all of my top kids to go to a particular school even if it's not the right fit? Should I tell a kid to go to Oberlin even though I know that Ray Appenheimer is a blah-blah-blah... (I chose Ray as an example because he is a friend of mine; one of the best men I've ever had the privilege of being around... and I'd counsel many kids to go run for Ray given the chance.) When you have influence with kids you try and help them to be successful; I don't think that Alberto felt that Galen/Martin would be a successful situation.

I'll tell you this: I advised Galen against going to U of O given that it didn't seem a good fit from what I'd heard from some athletes there that I trusted. I don't think that I was alone in believing that it might not be a good situation for Galen. Oh, and I wanted him to go to Stanford since that's where I went, but he ignored me.

Ultimately Galen made a decision that he felt would be best for him, regardless of Alberto and Martin.

Stuart Eagon visited Oregon. He CHOSE Wisconsin. Maybe he or his family or Coach Schumacher can tell you why. At the Footlocker Nationals I spoke with Coach Schumacher and relayed that the Eagons had mentioned their interest in Wisconsin. He called Stuart. Stuart visited Wisconsin. Stuart loved it. Stuart signed. Since I first met Stuart his sophomore year, it seemed a done deal that he would go to Oregon. After he visited Eugene, it didn't appear that way anymore. Ask him why.

What is the difference between those two things? He didn't tell anyone to stay away, but he counseled them to stay away? So, he didn't forbid any of his kids to go there, he just told them it wouldn't be in their best interest?

What I said was, “Feel free to continue to spout the theory that Al told kids not to go to Oregon, but it is a fact that, despite his differences with Martin, kids did not choose or reject Oregon beacause of him.”

I'm 100% sure that Alberto did influence Galen.

I'm 100% sure that he didn't influence Eagon or Vail. Martin Smith influenced them.

If Alec Wall left Oregon because Alberto didn't like Martin, why isn't he returning now? I haven't spoken to Alec recently, but, according to his family, he really does have other interests (as stated in the newspaper announcing his leaving the program about a month ago) and is serious about transferring to Dartmouth.

And McGrath? Well, he didn't run as well at Oregon as he had in high school; any chance that this might have influenced his decision? And, like Alec, he's not enrolled for spring quarter even with Martin gone. According to your theory he ought to be sprinting back to Eugene now that Tyson's in charge of the distance guys.

Is it too much to believe that these guys simply didn't want to run for Martin but do want to run for the University and program they grew up idolizing? These are smart kids, capable of making a decision; capable of discerning what they want out of a program, a school, a coach. Did they know how Alberto felt about the direction of the program? Of course. So did McGrath and Alec before they went - and they still went.... before deciding the Smith program wasn't for them. Why should Scott and Galen make the same mistake?

The conspiracy you speak of is one involving a great number of alumni, greater Eugene community, track and field folks throughout Oregon, the Oregon Track Club, and numerous other individuals and groups whom Martin alienated in his years in Eugene. They all wanted to see Martin go.

I don't know Martin personally. (Heck, I don't know any Oregon high school coaches that know Martin personally, and you'd think with some of the local talent he might make some effort to know a few of the coaches, but that's only a small part of what he didn't do in Eugene...) I'm sure he's a good guy. But if you're an Oregon Track fan - especially one who grew up with the idea that Oregon meant distance running (and, well, it's also cool that we've got Mac Wilkins and Bobby Moore and Tom Hintnaus and Reider Lorentzen and Kory Tarpenning and Jeff Stover and ....) and a new guy comes in and, apparently, doesn't give a rat's ass for the tradition and the people who have been - and are still - Oregon Track, you're not very unhappy to see him go.

You know there's a lawsuit going on regarding former throws coach Sally Harmon and Martin and the University. I believe - and it's just my perception - that's only the tip of the iceberg regarding why Martin resigned.

There is no doubt that some (many?) of the current team liked and respected Martin. But the whole Oregon Track community will benefit from this change, not just a few. If they get the right personality in as head coach, Eugene can be a place where people are once again excited about track and field, not a place where the people have grown weary of the head coach and his ways.

Does anyone know where Martin is moving to next? I assume he has no desire to stick around in Eugene.

Eugene is way to small for Martin to stick around for one more second. I assume he'll try to get out of the west coast. He could do two things. one is go low profile for a while and sit on his big bucks. two is create a fire and see who would be willing to hire him. there are a lot of people who seem to support him, but I wonder how many would be willing to hire him with all these bobby knightish stories, he could be a liability if he acutally ever hit someone with a clipboard or garbage can and it seriously harmed and athlete. these are things AD's have to think about.

i thought i heard about something in Virginia....does his wife have horses or a horse farm or did they buy one there? and isn't that where he is originally from?

curious wrote:

Does anyone know where Martin is moving to next? I assume he has no desire to stick around in Eugene.