Future Star: 1600 in 4:05 at High School Dual Meet

Flagpole wrote:

Neither of my kids will pace any other kid without their coaches getting a piece of my mind about it. I would NOT want any other kid pacing either of my kids to a fast time either. NO high school kid is that special that they should have a pacer in a race. Gives a bad message to both pacer and pacee.

I don't agree or disagree. I was simply pointing out that it was silly to imply that pay-to-participate, pay-to-play as you stated it does not guarantee anything beside a spot on a roster. It is not a right beyond being a member of a team.

Since I am making sanctimonious corrections:

high school coach, it is dual meet (two teams), not duel meet (fighting with weapons).

Flagpole wrote:

Obviously this kid has some talent, but I'd rather see him run in a big invitational with other decent runners, cones or aluminum barriers on the curves, no pacing done by another kid (honestly I think that's a bit lame in a high school dual meet race or maybe even ANY high school race), and no people running on the infield with him the last 100 meters.

Only on letsrun will a kid be criticized for running fast in a dual meet.

When I was in HS I ran 8:29 3000m in a dual meet and lapped most of the field. Do I regret it? No. It ended up being my HS PR.

Another HS dual meet I paced a kid to a district qualifer in the 3000. He was on the other team. My coach yelled at me afterwards, but I was written up in the paper a few days later for showing "good sportsmanship".

Flagpole I like most of your posts, but you must be carrying some emotional baggage on this because you are way out of line.

I assume this kid was disqualified per the rules against pacing.

chubb wrote:

Since I am making sanctimonious corrections:

high school coach, it is dual meet (two teams), not duel meet (fighting with weapons).

Sanctimonious correction DULY noted. ;)

And yes, Hardy is a beast, but he's arguably not even the best soph in the state. Kai Wilmot dropped an 8:57 at Shoreline. And we've got a pack of 9:20-9:30/low 4:20 frosh this year, so the next couple years should be interesting, indeed.

a high school coach wrote:

Well then you have an issue with me. Number one, it's not illegal in any way, shape, or form in WA state.

Having kids running alongside him on the infield is most certainly illegal. Read your rule book, chief.

Some kid ran a 5:57 at the same meet, is a junior.

Pretty fricken slow.

Or how about Alexa Efraimson, FROSH from Camas, WA: 2:08.92 and 4:23.41 (1,500)!

http://www.athletic.net/TrackAndField/Athlete.aspx?AID=3650447

dontflushwhileyousit wrote:

Having kids running alongside him on the infield is most certainly illegal. Read your rule book, chief.

I was referring to the pacer, not anyone on the infield. I wasn't there, so I don't know to what degree kids were running along side him on the infield. That would be for the starter or the track officials who were there to determine.

Flagpole wrote:

[quote]Azaleas wrote:

I'm not for that in high school. So the pacer kid sacrifices his own race to pace the 4:05 kid? I'd never ask a kid on a team to do that, and I wouldn't let them if they asked. Every kid should try to do the best they can in every race. Now, perhaps the pacer kid just was trying to hang on as long as possible and bit off more than he could chew, but I doubt it.

The meet was senior night. He wanted to put on a show. Also he really wanted to break the record for the school in the mile. (4:06) Also, WHO CARES?!!!!!! let the kid be happy for himself. he brought the whole community and was trying to make them proud of a kid from sucha small school doin work!

It wasnt considered pacing because the kid that paced him finished the race. If he trailed off after the 800 mark then it would be considered a rabbit.

Flagpole reminds me of Squidward from Sponge Bob. What a snob.

I don't see any problem with the pacing since it is not against the rules in Washington. The guy who paced him must have been able to run a 2:02 800m from the front, right? That's a pretty good time. It works well for a 4:20 miler late in the season to get an opportunity to run an appropriate 800 for himself while being a great help to his teammate who needed a 2:02 opener to have a shot at a difficult record.

Buckley is a small school. This guy probably never had any competition other than Andy Maris' 20+ year old school record. I'm very impressed that he took this down in a dual meet. If I recall, Maris ran his time at a national level invitational.

At this time of year, Washington schools are entering the post-season. The guy who paced him undoubtedly has a League, District, and State championship coming up in the next few weeks. With his level of talent, he will be competitive all the way up to the state level. I don't think he needed to burn himself up in a dual meet.

I also paced someone in my last home dual meet. One of my teammates was ready to break 4:45 but could never get the pacing right. I hung back and helped him through 2:24 at the half. Then I took off and ran under 4:40 (for 2nd behind another teammate). The guy I paced broke 4:45 and went on to improve 2 days later at our conference meet. Oh yeah, I in that same meet I defended my conference 1600m title with a 9 second PR and set a record that stood for 22 years. Probably none of those things would have happened had I been selfish and needed to be a hero in my last dual meet.

Dual meets are rarely useful for anything other than a workout if you are running at a high level. The guy who paced this 4:05 probably thinks dual meets are a joke and was happy to help his teammate out, not to mention generating interest in the sport. I am going up to WA in a couple weeks and I will probably try to make the state meet now, just to see this guy run. I'm also curious to see how his teammate does because he will probably do great at the state level as well.

Nope wrote:

It wasnt considered pacing because the kid that paced him finished the race. If he trailed off after the 800 mark then it would be considered a rabbit.

It's fine for the runner in the race to pace him. That's legal. It's the people running alongside him at the end that makes it illegal (looks like maybe a coach and another athlete). That was what I said in my previous post, but in your effort to try to prove someone wrong, you misread my post. His performance was aided by people running alongside him that weren't in the race. By NFHS rules, this is illegal. Unless you want to tell me that Washington doesn't follow NFHS rules.

dontflushwhileyousit wrote:

Having kids running alongside him on the infield is most certainly illegal. Read your rule book, chief.

1) One kid ran for an extremely brief time along the infield and not right next to him. He was cheering Marcus on and not in any way, shape or form, pacing him It should be discouraged by a coach but makes perfect sense not to call a DQ.

2) There is no rule NFHS, or WIAA against having a rabbit and no case book for DQing a rabitted race -even if the pacer DNFs.

3) The pacer DID NOT DNF. He ran 4:37 which is a pretty decent time so the above becomes totally irrelevant in this instance.

Furthermore. The rabbit is a 1:59 800 runner. He will most likely go to state and possibly make it to the final. I will guarantee he is going to remember pacing Marcus to a 4:05 and getting under Maris's (#2 at Kinney/Footlocker Nationals) record a lot more fondly than running a 4:20 in a meaningless dual meet.

To belabor a point, what a badass to come through 800 pretty close to a PB and then finish up with a 4:37. That kid is golden in his own right.

coach dd cooper wrote:

How is a 'full mile' different from a mile?

Depending on pace, it's about 1.5-3secs longer.

Look, this site has had this kind of "humorous" discussion on many threads. The fact is that *tons* of people say "mile" ("We did five mile repeats today" or "I'll be running the mile again in the next meet") when they actually mean just four laps of a 400m track--1,600 and not 1,609+ meters.

I'm big on correcting English usage, but I don't correct this one--the distinction between a real mile and what people *call* a mile is worth retaining.

There is a difference from setting a pace in a race that you are competing in and setting up a race were you have no intention on finishing or jogging after a set point.

This shouldn't be the school record either because the kid who had it before most likely set in a race and what about kids in the future?

An important fact to remember is the following: I WORK OUT.

Pacino wrote:

1) One kid ran for an extremely brief time along the infield and not right next to him. He was cheering Marcus on and not in any way, shape or form, pacing him It should be discouraged by a coach but makes perfect sense not to call a DQ.

The kid in blue runs alongside him for almost 40 meters. Not right next to him? You've got to be kidding me. This is not an act of spontaneous excitement (which the rule book does allow). The kid is running with him and pumping him up.

And there's no attempt by a coach to discourage this behavior. In fact, you can tell that the coach is trying to pace him but simply can't keep up.

Flagpole how the hell are you not banned? Every time you get involved in a thread you highjack it with your ridiculous back and forth with people who are stupid enough to respond to you.

PEOPLE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!

???????????? wrote:

There is a difference from setting a pace in a race that you are competing in and setting up a race were you have no intention on finishing or jogging after a set point.

This shouldn't be the school record either because the kid who had it before most likely set in a race and what about kids in the future?

Please, will all you pissants just stop. Part of our job in promoting the sport of T&F is to due exactly what this kid and his team did. Pick out a meet, set a clearly defined goal, recruit the community and pull it off. That is what generates excitement and grows the sport.

This is what they did in the old days to generate excitement, because, truth be told, it's not all that exciting watching dudes running 4 laps around the track. So finally we have something exciting happen at a dual meet and the "purist" want to belittle the accomplishment?

Hair splitting BS about the sanctity of dual meets, pacers or whatever else that puts your painties in a bunch will only hold this sport back.