Marathon Training Thread week ending 4/15

what were your long runs like leading up to the race?

what was your longest? what were the others like? what kind of pace did you run in them relative to your marathon goal pace?

Hi, guys- I'm a long-time lurker, but this is my first post. I'm a senior at BU and wanted to say how brave you guys who ran Boston are. The team tradition at BU is to run the last ~10mi of the marathon course early in the morning, watch most of the race on TV, then get to the 40k mark just before you run by Fenway to watch everyone come in.

We started running at ~8am and it was UNCOMFORTABLE. We knew it there was going to be major carnage out there.

I was about ~400m before the 40k mark, and watching everyone (elites and walkers alike) was heartbreaking. That's the only word that I can think of.

I graduate in May, and will probably start posting here with some frequency before long. I just wanted to step in and say well done to all people who survived. I wanted to hop the barrier and run in with all of you (too many cops, though).

I hope everyone recovers well and returns to Boston in kinder weather. All the best.

Longest run was 21 miles, but it was a easy-tempo-easy-tempo-easy type long run (tempo @ 6:35-6:40). There were 2 of these, last one 6 weeks before the race. There were two 19 milers, with 2 easy, 15 Marathon pace, 2 easy - the first of these, about 7:10 pace, the second more about 7:00 pace. Other long runs were all easy runs (8:20 or so), between 2:00 and 2:30 in duration.

So, weeks before the marathon: 18.1 (inc. tempo), 17.2 (13@7:10 M pace), 16 (easy-8:20), 21 (inc. tempo), 19 (15@7:10 M pace), 21 (inc. tempo) 13.1 (race), 18 (easy), 19 (15@7:00 M Pace), 10 (tempo), 11.5 (easy), then the race.

It's all just letter for letter from the Daniels plan - I'm not saying that makes it good, I just lack the experience or courage to differ from it at this stage!

Post-mortem. I warned everyone I talked to that this wasn't going to be your day. And it wasn't for most people. I basically know of one person who set a PR. (A master's woman who ran 2:58 off a 3:05 PR, but she's from Austrailia and probably is way better shape). I know someone who came in top 70 with a 2:38, but was probably in 2:30 shape. Someone who was in 2:45 shape run a 2:52. Those were the victories in this race.

The rest was just carnage. I played it safe, I didn't want to end up in a med-tent. I already had a decent BQ from Houston. I knew I wasn't going to PR going in, so I guess my goal was to run a Personal Worst. Mission Accomplished.

To be honest. I had to hold back big time in the beginning and as you will see in my splits. I still was running way too fast. I felt like I was moving backwards, I was being passed by everyone and everything. Even the specators seems to be passing me (I was first corral). My effort level the entire time was jogging. I have to admit though, it hurt towards the end. And it was feckin hot.

I ran with a 20-22oz handheld. I went through that 3 times.

Mile splits:

1: 6:38.3 (shit too fast, but I feel like I'm jogging)

2: 7:03.6 (still feel like jogging, run with Joanie a bit)

3: 7:07.2 (going backwards still. Feels slow I know it will suck later though)

4: 7:13.2 (starting to suck. running shade tangents not course tangents)

5: 7:20.5 (the trend continues)

6: 7:28.3

7: 7:35.2 (gel, this are disgusting in 85F temps)

8: 7:39.0

9: 7:50.8 (stop from 15-30 seconds to fill hand-held)

10: 7:38.2

11: 7:47.5

12: 7:55.2 (I basically run this mile blind as I get sunscreen in my eyes from pouring water over my head. I need to stop for 10+ seconds at med tent for paper towel)

13: 7:57.4 (The baking sun of Wellsley)

14: 8:01.0 (This is where I start to notice all of the people walking, but I'm still getting passed)

15: 8:02.9

16: 7:49.5 (This is the screaming downhill. I wasn't looking forward to this. But woohoo sub-8!)

17: 8:38.9 (Hill 1, bottle fill)

18: 8:29.9 (Hill 2)

19: 8:25.6

20: 8:47.2 (Hill 3)

21: 9:07.1 (Hill 4)

22: 8:30.3

23: 8:36.3

24: 8:48.6 (Never had a salt pill, what the heck).

25: 8:56.2

26: 9:49.9 (I stopped here for 1-2 minutes to meet some friends, have a can of Miller Lite and some pictures. I could give a crap about what time I actually ran)

26.53: 4:41.5 (8:51/mile pace)

Time: 3:33:55

Slower by 45:14 than 2011...

Very kind words. I tried my best to embrace the spectators. You know, enjoy the experience, but all I could think about was how was I going to finish, particularly after the half way point. I want to say that once I finished and got back to "normal" the spectators were absolutely amazing. They had ice, ice cold water (cups and bottles), foods, popsicles, and a great attitude of "I wish I could give you some of my energy to help you cross the finish line." I really think they saved a lot of us out there.

Ok, yeah I mean there is not much to critique here. Your training looks good for your goal and the overall mileage you were putting in, and honestly that shows in your race result.

Iif your goal was 3:05, and you ended up running 3:08, i think most people would say you had a darn good day.

The fade in the last 2 miles is something that many experienced runners have problems with as well.

I think your training was fine. Perhaps you could have avoided your fade and run 3:06 or 3:07 if you had started a tad bit more conservative, but i would not have recommended that to you beforehand. A 3 minute fade means that you probably ran very near your potential on that day.

if you had a goal of 3:05 and only "blew up" to run 3 minutes slower, that's a good day. in short, you could have run a little faster and faded less, but i think it is important to go after the goal.

finally i don't think you underperformed given your 1:26 half marathon. i think doubling your half and adding 15 minutes is pretty reasonable since you were running relatively low overall miles.

in any case, in your next marathon and training cycle you could maybe up your overall mileage and work on getting your marathon pace down in training, but i don't think you have any particular problem with fading that you need to worry about.

me on the otherhand, i am worried about my next marathon in 10 days because last year in my first i went from being on 2:42 pace with 2 miles to go to finishing in 2:54. I did my last two miles in about 24 minutes. im hoping if i am a little more conservative in the beginning this year i will avoid a major bonk. though i am anticipating a fade because it just happens.

anyway. good work.

Thanks for the feedback, it's really appreciated. Good luck in your marathon.

Considering you only averaged 50 MPW and peaked at 60 IMO you did very, very well.

Peaking at 70- and averaging 70 will/should eliminate any kind of fade at the end.

MarathonMind wrote:

Considering you only averaged 50 MPW and peaked at 60 IMO you did very, very well.

Peaking at 70- and averaging 70 will/should eliminate any kind of fade at the end.

Thanks, this was my suspicion, good to have it confirmed. I'm very lucky in that I can run at lunchtime during work, doubles are an easy option so upping mileage should be no (practical) problem. Although I guess doubles is another debate altogether :)

First post here. Congrats to those who just ran Boston... sounds like the conditions were far from ideal.

Goal: 2:40 on 6/23

Last Week: 83 miles

M - 7

T AM - 8, T PM - 6 trails

W AM - 6, W PM - "hammer" 400s (16 X 400 @ 5k pace 1 min rest - 4, 7, 11, 15 hammer @ mile pace)

Th AM - 7, Th PM - 5

F AM - 5, F PM - 5

S - 5

Su - 20 (15 easy, 5 up tempo with 2 @ race pace)

Little bit about myself:

I've been getting back into running over the past two years after many years off. Back in the day (I'm 32 now), I was decent high school runner and ran one year in college. With the low mileage I was running back then, I feel I never really reached my potential. So, now I'm going at it full force again to see what can happen.

Last week was my biggest mileage week ever. I'd been working up to it since January. I hope to add in more tempos as I adjust to the mileage. I hit a 7 mile tempo yesterday that felt pretty good.

Good luck to everyone else in their training. I enjoy looking at these threads for ideas and inspiration. Cheers!

Just wanted to drop by and say congrats to all those who gutted through Boston. I can't imagine how disheartening it must've been to have the weather end up as it did. Especially after months and months of hard training.

I was tracking lots of people on Monday (including some from this thread), and the story seemed to be the same for nearly everyone. It's certainly one of those races where you race the guy next to you and not the clock. I hope everyone who ran realizes that this race isn't the best indicator of your current fitness, and not to beat themselves up about it. To those who want to attempt to "salvage" your fitness in another marathon, I would strongly advise against it. It's possible that this marathon may take even MORE recovery than a PR effort because of the physical toll it took just to finish. Marathons require proper recovery, especially ones where dehydration is a factor.

That said, a big GOOD LUCK to all the London Marathoners this weekend!

Pablo's right. On of my friends who is a multiple Badwater runner was limping around still yesterday. I've never seen him limp after Badwater.

Wow, some truly extraordinary tales of courage and suffering in Boston. My hat is off to all of you. One of the things that brought home the severity of the conditions for me was that Mutai was a DNF. How many people would have predicted that before Monday?

Samblackbones - the legs seizing up follower by somersault sounds god-awful. Amazed you finished after that.

Fitzwell - very well done on seeing it through.

Never_Ran_Well_In_Boston - thanks for the write-up, think that really gives a good impression of how tough it was. Congrats on finishing.

1st timer - your HR numbers show just how seriously really hot conditions affect us. Made for interesting/scary reading. Impressive running in ridiculous conditions.

Another - bet the Miller Lite in the last mile was a godsend. Much respect for you getting it done.

LibertyPark - very, very impressed that you went through halfway on 2:33 pace and only slipped to 2:50. That's incredible running in appalling conditions.

categorically - WOW!! Think you might take the award for most dramatic change in pace. Totally floored that you got to the finish after such a spectacular meltdown, shows real guts.

otto - think you had a very good run in light of the obvious carnage that was on show. 8 mins over your estimate in that weather is brilliant.

You are all heroes. Everyone one of you beat Geoff Mutai.

Foogo - hope you can get your knee sorted out for Nashville.

LastAngryMan - well done on getting through what sounds like a very tough last few miles. More mileage will see you right next time.

Thanks marmite.

On that note, I was hoping to get some mid-week input from you guys on one last workout.

I ended up taking Sunday and monday off and then thankfully the pain in my knee was clearing up on tuesday. i guess i had just bruised it pretty hard.

in any case. on tuesday i did 13 miles with 8 miles at marathon pace (6:06 avg) very comfortable. but since my overall mileage has been low this cycle i will set my goal marathon pace around 6:12 to 6:18.

so that workout was 11 days out. i obviously had some other stuff planned for last weekend and this week before i hurt my knee so i have already cut a few things.

still i was thinking of getting one more little workout on friday. Friday will be 8 days out from my saturday marathon. its been about 2 weeks since i have done anything faster than marathon pace so i was thinking i wanted to get something in to touch base with either vo2 max or lactate threshold beforehand.

since i tend to respond better to tempo runs rather than intervals on a short term basis, i was thinking i would just do something like a 4 or 5 mile tempo run at half marathon pace. 5:45 pace

so is this smart or not? will i get the benefits of this workout by marathon day or is this just unnecessary exertion? any other suggestions

i'm thinking 4 miles just to be cautious.

in any case i am just happy to be back running after the freak fall. everything now feels like icing.

Marmite, and others who chimed in with post race encouragement - thank you!

I think I might have come close to some sort of record for slowest mid-race 5k in a sub-3:20 marathon. Haha! I'm sure people have run/walked the last 5k slower but even I was surprised how quickly I got back to running - I even had a 6:38 24th mile!

Pablo - I appreciate the advice on doing another quick marathon. I would definitely only do a half and only if I feel great by then. We'll see.

Congrats to everyone who ran and good luck to those doing London.

Lots of great reading here this week. I will just repeat what others have said. You can never beat the weather so be proud you all gave it a shot. There will be marathons down the road and you will be able to think back on how tough you fought in Boston and get through a bad stretch at some futrue marathon.

Take it from a back-of-the-pack guy who had microfracture knee surgery in August 2011 and still is not running. You all did great and would do it again, right! That is why we run.

Pablo - thanks for the shout-out for London. Hope you're getting back to it.

Foogo - personally, I think the workout you have planned for today looks a bit hard only 8 days out from the race. I'd be tempted to do 4M @MP, then perhaps a few strides.

Categorically - looking forward to London, not in PB shape so just looking to go as quick as I can whilst enjoying it, providing the two aren't mutually exclusive ;-)

OK, now for my Boston horror story

My last 10 days of training didn't go great, but I did get in a 10 mile run that was faster then I did the broad street 10 miler in Philly last year so I was in shape.

With the heat I decided to wear my fuel belt, which I use on long runs. I am terrible at grabbing cups and wanted to make hydrating a key. I never ran well in the heat, and wanted this to change. My 3:03 goals was bumped back to a 3:10, just to qualify again for next year

Before the race, it was actually nice at 7, when most marathons start. But I couldn't stop sweating for the hour before the race. When the race started, I new something was wrong. My 2nd mile pace was 15 slower then my goal, but it still seemed hard, and I was dying of thirst even though I thought I was drinking enough. By mile 5 my legs were heavy and I new I was losing it. I couldn't believe how bad I was doing. I started dumping water on me and doing anything I could to cool myself down. That created a bigger problems. My socks and shoes were soaked and I could tell I was getting blisters. Started to walk/run but there was no shade for the sun. Things got worst from here. I had to stop in the medical tent twice, but only for a couple minutes. I just couldn't get my lefts to run for a minute or two without the pain from the blisters hurting. I threw away my felt beal by mile 10, knowing that I was going to be walking a lot from there. I would have given anything for DRY SOCKS! I walked slowly for the majority of the race and finished 2 hours after my goal time. Yes, I said 2 hours. I couldn't quit, I had come along way and my wife, son and parents all came up to watch. But the race is something I would like to forget

But at least I did finish, Back where I was running, every medical tent was packed, the heat took out a lot of people.

Need to take a break to get my training back together. I hope to do well in Broad Street this year, just to have something to show for my months of training.

Sorry this was long